Epson r2880 magenta problem...solved, but not sure how I did it.

[the FUN]

Documenting here to share experience and see if anyone has experienced this before. Warning, this might be a simple case of clogged head - but I'm not sure.

Here's the quick summary if the details below are too much to read (I apologize in advance for the 5 min of your life you will not get back for reading the full details):

r2880 not printing magenta on Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy - software settings all appropriate (CS6 manages color, printer management off, monitor calibrated, proper profiles used, OEM ink, and OEM paper)

Vivid Magenta was clogged, but wouldn't print even after clean nozzle check result. Fixed only when I randomly tried to print on different paper - Premium Photo Paper Semi-Gloss - and adjusted profiles to reflect new paper - then printed correctly. Immediately, switched back to Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy and adjusted profiles to reflect paper (same exact settings that didn't work before)...and magically this printed fine too!

anyone see this happen before?

_________________

More details below including nozzle cleaning and switching between PC and Mac, etc...

Sorry for being overly verbose - but wanted to detail everything...

I previously had a good r2880 workflow using, Windows 7 PC, CS6, Sypder3 Pro Calibrated Dell Ultrasharp Monitor, r2880, OEM epson ink, OEM epson paper (Ultra Premium Luster, Ultra Premium Glossy).

Here's recent history:

1) Workflow as discussed above from pre 2011 until July 2016 - working fine

2) July 2016 - Forced to upgrade to Windows 10 - datacolor (Spyder3 Pro) had been sending me marketing emails regarding discontinued support for Sypder3, upgrade hardware, etc. So I did not reinstall program.

3) July 2016 - December 2016 - Prints from Windows 10, CS6, and same hardware - prints were no longer perfect, but only real issue that I could discern was that they were coming out darker than display on monitor - color reproduction was still good.

4) January 2017 - Upgraded monitor to 4k monitor (Acer Predator XB321HK) and video card (Nvidia GeForce GTX 750Ti) - prints yielded same results as Step 3 - not perfect, but I thought I understood the variance and could compensate.

5) Early June 2017 - had small batch of unaffiliated images to print, noticed that one particular portrait was printing with a "de-saturated magenta" look - example would be where portrait skin tone lacked red and the red lipstick, while still red, was muted - other color reproductions of different subjects printed before and after this specific image were fine. I chalked it up to an unknown quirk as I was burning ink trying to adjust for this the one problem. Stopped printing and didn't revisit the issue or use the printer again until...

6) Mid July 2017 - purchased Canon Pro-100 to be used with a different PC at a different location (parent's home) - but tested it out on current system - installed drivers, icc profiles, etc. Printed bottom evaluation image found here http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html on Pro-100 and Epson r2880 - images were almost identical - but I noted that Red Strawberries were a little muted on r2880 print. Printed other images using both printers - images were fairly identical between the two (but in retrospect most prints were 4x6 and scans of old photos from the 80's so color accuracy was less critical). Moved Canon printer to parent's house. Brought back the MP970 to NYC to look at magenta problem (what a coincidence - advice asked and received in a diff thread)! Joined this website and made first posts. Have basically concluded that MP970 is shot based on the Hat's thoughts.

Decided to take a hard look at r2880 output again... reprinted the image that looked like it had de-saturated magenta (now I have concluded that vivid magenta it was just missing) and saw that the problem still existed. Spent all day tinkering with software and testing...think I've solved my problem but not sure exactly how it was solved...

All work done in PC or Mac in CS6, using OEM ink, Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy (unless noted below), profile SPR2880 Premium Glossy, photoshop manages colors, printer settings correctly applied as well with no color management from printer and Premium Photo Paper Glossy selected (attached screen shots):

7/22 - Printed Image from PC- looked like Magenta was missing
7/22 - Printed Nozzle Check - NO problems noted - perfect pattern.
7/22 - Printed other versions of image, alt versions using relative colorimetric or perceptual in rendering intent- no difference in result - still missing Magenta. Decided to sleep on it.
7/23 - 11:00 AM Printed Image from PC - no change from day before - still missing Magenta
7/23 - Decided to calibrate my monitor with Spyder3 Pro - software seemed to install fine - most noticeable adjustment resulted in darkening my monitor (makes sense given my point #3 above). However, color on calibrated screen still showed that my image should have more magenta than printed.
7/23 - Printed image from Mac to test this was software problem on my PC (I wanted to eliminate variables since I had Canon Pro 100 drivers also installed on the PC and not the Mac) - result from Mac was exactly the same as PC.

Tests below performed on Mac.

7/23 - 11:29 am Ran Nozzle Check again - this time LK (light black) and VM (vivid magenta) inexplicably showed lots of blockage after being perfect the night before.
7/23 - 1st clean - LK pattern is back to perfect.
7/23 - 2nd and 3rd clean - ran out of LLK (light light black) - replaced. VM pattern still patchy.
7/23 - 4th and 5th clean - ran out of VLM (vivid light magenta) - replaced. VM pattern still slightly patchy - est 95% good pattern. I printed image - still missing magenta
7/23 - 6th clean - VM pattern now has only one empty "patch" left - I deemed fit to test print.
7/23 - 12:38 pm - test print still missing magenta. Stepped away frustrated.
7/23 - 1:25 pm - decide to try different paper - used Prem Photo Paper Semi-Gloss (screenshot of settings attached) - SURPRISE - Photo looks good!
7/23 - 1:28 pm - revert CS6 settings to Ultra Prem Photo Paper Glossy - Magenta has suddenly returned!

Go back to PC

7/23 - 1:59 pm - moved USB cable from Mac to PC which still had same image on the screen and same settings from 11:00 am (settings for Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy) - Prints come out perfect!

Any idea what happened here? (other than me writing a lot of words)?

Things that stick out to me:

Vivid Magenta was clogged at some point - but did not print correctly even after the nozzle check showed that it was unclogged- I had made a few prints after clean nozzle check without success. This could be wrong conclusion and maybe clog was the problem and it took time for ink to flow(?).

Vivid Magenta only seemed to print once I switched paper to Semi Gloss from Glossy, then continued to print correctly when I switched back to Glossy. (why? coincidence?)

Light Back was clogged at some point, but was quickly fixed with one cleaning - prob no impact

Vivid Light Magenta was never clogged but was running low - prob no impact

Light Light Black was never clogged but was running low - prob no impact

 

[mikling]

I think you simply ran into an air pockets in the ink path. This is typical of Epsons not used for a while. Sometimes immediate recovery is difficult and consecutive head cleans with wait times in between typically fixes it if the user does not "panic". No biggie once you understand what the problem is. If you keep printing once a week or better yet, twice a week on an R2880, this will likely not reoccur or if it does, very minimally. If you own an Epson, get used to it or do as recommended and it goes away.

I've explained the phenomena and why it occurs in another thread quite a while back. It is a weakness of the Epson piezo printhead technology and can never really be eliminated just minimized and managed.

 

[mikling]

I will make an addition to this.
The OP was testing different computers and operating systems. For those not in the know, the computer CANNOT control individual nozzle output at all. Thus when sending a file to the printer to print, the user/PC/OS does NOT tell the printer what nozzles to use. The operating system sends the data to the printer after it is modified by the printer driver used by the operating system and when it arrives there, it is then decoded by the printer internal software/firmware and this process decides which colors of ink needs to be used to print the individual DPI the picture has and what the pattern of dots should be. (Note that if you send even base colors the printer will NOT print a single color...even black) The decoding process might also involve telling the printer how fast to advance the paper as well as the speed of printing as well. Think of it this way, when you order something at the restaurant you send instructions to the kitchen what you want that is the user input at the operating system. The kitchen now becomes the printer...how it is made is all up to the kitchen. Like printers, all kitchens have their own style of cooking the same dish and the dish differs slightly from restaurant to restaurant. All printers thus selects which color ink to be used and the dot pattern will also be different as well.

There is an exception to this with something called a RIP. That will not be discussed since that is an advanced subject that normal people never see.

In your case the R2880 a K3 printer, even if you select pure black, the printer will NOT just print black. It may/will use some black ink but it will also select which other color inks to use to use in addition to black. Which other colors to use will depend on the media or paper choice and resolution selected. This might be counter-intuitive to what you might have thought.

 

[The Hat]

This might be counter-intuitive to what you might have thought.

Hooray, somebody here has put it into plain English, Thanks Mike...

 

[mikling]

One more addition for those who want to know what goes on a little more.
Let's suppose you are in the application editing the image. You decide to print. When you press print, the app sends the data to the driver installed in the Operating System. First, if the application allows you to choose How To Manage Colors and you've selected the app to manage color, then the App will select the ICC profile. The ICC profile will adjust the colors in the file and this will be sent to the driver in the operating system. The driver should have color adjustments OFF as all adjustments will have been made by the ICC profiles used by the App before. So the driver then sends the data right through with ADJUSTMENTS OFF. The printer will then decode the file and print as it normally does.

Now let's suppose you selected LET PRINTER DRIVER MANAGE COLOR in the editing app. The App will send the file to the driver in the operating system. Now the driver must decide what to do with it. If you are one of those who do not use color management, the driver WILL use an ICC profile that was installed automatically and is used automatically depending on the paper and print resolution chosen. Yes, it grabs a default ICC. The it ADJUSTS colors in the background without you knowing it. After it is adjusted the file is sent to the printer. In the printer it is decoded just like in the example before.

Now, if you have a serious printer meant for printing images, like the R2880, the driver will allow you to also choose a NON DEFAULT ICC profile from within the driver as well. So if you have a third party ICC profile, you can direct the driver to use that, adjust the colors and then send it to the printer. Again, the printer simply decodes the data and prints it.

In all of the above cases, the printer simply decodes the file and decides how to print. The user has NO control over how it is decoded and in each case it is the same decoding.

One thing to notice is that there needs to be only ONE level of color adjustments NEVER TWO. In the case of someone not using color management, there IS an adjustment but it is in the background without the user knowing that it is happening.

So in the case of the restaurant, someone ticks off the option for spicy. The waiter brings the request to the kitchen. If the waiter tells the kitchen Mr. X like his dish spicy. What happens? Well if the prep people see spicy ticked off and adds extra spice. and then the cook was told by the waiter that Mr. X likes spicier dishes and adds extra spice. What happens? Too spicy. Too many cooks.

 

[The Hat]

Speaking of Drivers ! !
I don’t have a problem using the print driver on any of my printers, if you got the printer then it uses the driver no big deal, BUT I got a right pain in my ass with Canon butting in and interfering with my print setting.

As some of you might know, I use the Colour/Intensity set to manual for all my printers, that way I can chose to use the same inks in many of my printers and still get the same colour output.

I got the time last week to finally install the Maxify driver, the printer had been sitting on my bench for months, I couldn’t install the CD driver, so had to let Canon-on-line install the driver for me, there was no other way to do that and now I am paying the price.

Before Canon install any driver, they give your system the once over and when they find another Canon driver they alter or update everyone of them, call it what you like for whatever reason, but now my setting on all my printers have been reset to Default, all of my Colour/Intensity setting are gone.

Thankfully I don’t need to print anything in a hurry, because I’d have to once again change all the colour setting to get them to match one and other, it will probably take 50 or 60 prints and many hours to achieve equilibrium...

I reckon the only answer is to stop buying new Canon printers...

 

[the FUN]

Thank you Mikling! Great explanation - This was super helpful.

Speaking of ICC Profiles, I now have to research profiles for using Canon Paper on r2880. Someone on the forum said that Epson Luster profile might work for Canon Glossy Paper.

...and as well how to print older canon paper on newer Canon printer (Pro-100) that doesn't have proper profile.

One follow up question on printer maintenance - I've read that many keep the printers continuously powered on - that in some printers, this will enable auto agitation or some other process which helps prevent print head clogging (I believe this was Canon). Not sure if r2880 has similar feature. Also I don't have Qimage or other software to auto print like others.

What is best process on r2880 for me:

1) keep printer continuously powered on and print once / twice a week (can I print any image - or should I print one of those reference images used for color analysis)

or

2) don't need to keep printer continuously powered on, just turn on and print once or twice a week

 

[mikling]

You can print on plain paper any image that more likely passes ink through all the nozzles. Nothing large is required. a 3x5 or 4x6 is all that is needed really if you do perform an image. If you have a quality PK ink, you can even use it as a doc printer even with PK ink in there.

Powered on and off. I jump around here. During thunderstorm it is off. Does not seem to matter but powering on and off will consume a little more ink. I am sitting on the fence on that one. Plugged in or not is another matter.

 

[mikling]

Thank you Mikling! Great explanation - This was super helpful.

Speaking of ICC Profiles, I now have to research profiles for using Canon Paper on r2880. Someone on the forum said that Epson Luster profile might work for Canon Glossy Paper.

...and as well how to print older canon paper on newer Canon printer (Pro-100) that doesn't have proper profile.

One follow up question on printer maintenance - I've read that many keep the printers continuously powered on - that in some printers, this will enable auto agitation or some other process which helps prevent print head clogging (I believe this was Canon). Not sure if r2880 has similar feature. Also I don't have Qimage or other software to auto print like others.

What is best process on r2880 for me:

1) keep printer continuously powered on and print once / twice a week (can I print any image - or should I print one of those reference images used for color analysis)

or

2) don't need to keep printer continuously powered on, just turn on and print once or twice a week

Nobody can predetermine what happens with a profile and paper. The only way is to use a sheet and see what happens. Print a small image.

 

[stratman]

During thunderstorm it is off.

If the concern is for power surges harming the printer from a lightning strike then the printer should be disconnected from the electrical outlet and not just powered off. But how many do this?