Epson P400 vs. Canon Pro10 print quality comparison

Ink stained Fingers

Printer Master
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,747
Reaction score
4,160
Points
283
Location
Germany
Printer Model
L310/805/1800, P400, Pro7600
I did a test with the help of @palombian to compare the print output of these two printers - mainly how do the printouts compare - how do they look - how does the gloss/chroma optimizer perform. We both printed several test images with our printers - on the same Sihl glossy photo paper - with the inksets we are currently using, and we exchanged these prints by mail so that the other could judge and compare the output to his own prints.
I'm running an Epson P400 printer, the only one in the Epson line-up which supports the use of a gloss optimizer as Epson calls this clear liquid. I did several tests over the years how I get the best looking (by personal judgement) output in the combination of inks, papers and various GO brands - see my last posting here
https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...gloss-optimizers-for-epson.13795/#post-119740
I'm curently using the GO of a Chinese (via Aliexpress) supplier 168ink.com which I got some time ago, and I'm using a mix of pigment inks from previous tests - a mix of Pigmera HG2 by farbenwerk and some Ultrachrome HD inks, I'm mixing red and orange with yellow and magenta, this reduces the amount of non standard ink bottles floating around although it may impact the acheivable gamut to a degree. Since the gamut does not just depends on the supplier but very much on the paper type as well I'm not evaluating gamut differences very much at this time in this test, that would be another more complex exercise. I'm printing the test images with the GO turned off at the time of printing , and do a separate full page overprint with GO some time later. This turns out to deliver the best looking prints.
I'm comparing the Epson vs. the Canon prints - they look very very similar - they show the same uniform gloss - across different colors - and as well in the highlight/clipped white areas. I'm comparing prints done with a non-standard/non-genuine inkset, on a non-Epson paper with a non-Epson gloss optimizer, I'm comparing against prints which are done under similar conditions on a Pro10 - non-Canon inks on the same non-Canon paper by @palombian. I think it would be impossible for other observers to tell the difference - which is a Canon or Epson print - I'm not talking about a magnifier view to pixels and ink dots - dithering etc.
He explained in another recent thread in detail his efforts to optimize the ink set for his Pro 10
www.printerknowledge.com/threads/my-canon-pro-10-on-refill-ink-and-what-happened-to-my-pro-9500ii.13542/page-16
I don't have OEM Epson inks available nor Epson papers so I'm not able to do such comparison, and I will not spend any money for that. The Epson HighGLoss2 ink for the P400 is not even available in larger Epson cartridges since it is not used in any other larger printer model.

Edit:
 
Last edited:

mikling

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
3,105
Reaction score
1,390
Points
313
Location
Toronto, Canada
You can obtain more control of the CO on Pro-10s using form controls which I am not sure has ever been discussed on internet forums.

By gaining control of the CO output one can optimize output to mate with different papers to better match what can be output. So one can even use the CO on certain matte papers and gain some more vibrancy without overdoing it. It is an optimization process for the ones who really want to master the printing capabilities of the Pro-10. Even with gloss papers, one cat match the CO to each specific paper and image if desired and is studious enough to do it. The default settings in the driver only hints at the possibilities. Specifically one can control the CO by characteristics of paper and tone!

Do understand that these form controls also spill over to the Pro-1000 as well for the printing masters who really want to wring out the very last performance and want to use the capabilities Canon has put into these machines.

You can optimize each image CO characteristics to match the paper and have these settings stored in the driver workflow. Professionals selling prints can really optimize a print image and store settings within the driver workflow and recall it on demand by image!

One day in the future I might discuss this aspect on Jose Rodriguez's podcast on YouTube.
 

stratman

Printer VIP
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
6,926
Reaction score
5,054
Points
373
Location
USA
Printer Model
Canon MB5120, Pencil
One day in the future I might discuss this
Thanks for the heads up.
Until then, there's nothing stopping you from sharing instructions here. :frow
 

Ink stained Fingers

Printer Master
Platinum Printer Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,747
Reaction score
4,160
Points
283
Location
Germany
Printer Model
L310/805/1800, P400, Pro7600
Epson does not support the gloss optimizer with any additional undocumented driver option, Epson puts less support and effort into that.. But the idea of a mask came up already several years ago.
The Epson R265 was a 6 color dye A4 photo printer which I ran on pigment inks, the printer does not have a dedicated channel for the GO, so I was looking for alternatives. The WF-2010W is a 4 color pigment ink (Durabrite) printer which I used for that purpose - running GO via the black channel with the driver settings 'inkjet/matte paper' and B/W printing only which I used for the GO in a separate print run. It was discussed at that time that an extracted B/W image, or the inverse of it , could be used to control the GO density depending on the specific need - more or less GO as per the B/W gray level. That was working technically but the additional efforts did not yield enough benefit to do it as a standard procedure. Driver support would make it easier to use.
 

palombian

Printer Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
1,443
Points
257
Location
Belgium
Printer Model
PRO-10, Pro9500II, MAXIFY
It is hidden behind rather stupid (on the border of misleading) examples deep in the manual but the principle is quite simple:

You make a "Form file" by "printing" an image with the required CO overlay and density.
30 different forms can be stored on the same time in the driver settings.

Afterwards you print the real image using the required "Form file" as CO mask (in the same pass).

I made forms with white(0), 25, 50, 75 greys and black(100%) and a combination in a scale.

First tests indicate you don't need 100% CO on most papers (a possible economy).

Inversion is possible (suggesting you can make a specific form for an image where you want to cover only the white clipped parts with CO).

What you probably can't do is lay more than 100% to compensate for cheaper CO.
OTH it is very easy to do a second pass this way (without changing carts or dedicated printers).

To be investigated further.
 
Last edited:

The Hat

Printer VIP
Moderator
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
12,570
Reaction score
6,221
Points
433
Location
Wicklow Ireland
Printer Model
Canon/3D, CR-10, Ender-2, KP3
I’ve been there and done that, in the end I settle on an Aubergine colour @30% that covered the whole page, I even tried colour separation and printed using just the black image, and I also tried just covering the printed image, but went back to total coverage.

I’ve tried a second coat overprint next day but there was no overall difference, I found once was the best option with a light coating of GO..

I use my spare 9500 for applying GO with all the carts filled and can reuse all the GO that gets put through the purge unit again, I always run a deep clean before any printing to clean up everything, it’s only used 2 or 3 times a year..

I originally wanted to use an iX7000 for the overprint, but that didn’t work out, that printer wasn’t easy to use and I keep getting pizza wheel marks on the prints, I now have the printer ready for the dumpster when things get back to normal, whatever that will be.. Ant one want a working iX7000 printer..
 
Top