Epson Color Density percentage?

W. Fisher

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Properties section of the printer > Paper Configuration > Color Density you can got from Default 0% to either a -50 percent to a +50 percent.

I made a simple all black print in PhotoShop with RGB=0 or Lab=0. Then printed in on 4x6 inch glossy paper using my paper's profile.

Then I made another smaller black print same as above, but 2x3 inches and printed it over the above print (Or stacked.) after it dried for about 20 minutes.

I can see, in the first larger one, a bit of the paper's gloss with one of those cheap LED flashlights that has a bunch of small LEDs in the head. I can see each of the individual LEDs in the gloss of the larger image.

However, with the middle second one of the stacked print, the gloss is absent and dull (Matte like.) and it's hard to see the individual LEDs. Appears darker in the middle as well.

I'm thinking the initial ink load or color density of Default 0% is maybe too little?

I also ran a third smaller 1x1 inch image on the above stack, and more odd is the gloss came back on it and the individual reflection of the LEDs are visible. The second one is still dull. First is still glossy.

I don't know if increasing the Color Density to maybe 20% would make the difference between the first two initial ones less apparant and more blended?

Couldn't find much online about the Color Density in the Epson Properties setup and how to set it up to do a profile for the paper.

W.F
 

Ink stained Fingers

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I'm not sure to understand what you want to acheive or demonstrate or measure - which printer are you using ? what type of paper are you using ? why are you doing an overprint for black ?

how to set it up to do a profile for the paper.
Or do you want to profile that paper ? If it's an Epson printer you select the 'no color adjustment' option in the extended color control options - that prints with the max. ink density using an ink load as controlled by the paper type selection in the driver.
 

Ubuki

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Not an expert opinion, but coated paper probably doesn't have the properties of capilarity of plain paper and ink will not be absorbed incrementally. The new ink is probably just solving the previous layers because the paper is already saturated.
 

W. Fisher

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Thanks.

I made the profiles with the 11 Pro 2 and color management was off. Epson Glossy Premium. However, when actually using the profile, I got a blacker black on second one below by increasing the Color Density to +25% over the profiled one that I made. When I raised it more to +50% the L* density went up (i.e. Less black than the +25% CD setting as if it were reversing.).


These are what the profiles Color Density loads were and the Lab values I read after they dried overnight (12 hours) for the three test prints.

1st one full page:
Default Color Density 0%.

L= 9.96
a= -0.53
b= -2.56

_________________

2nd print: Color Density set to +25%. This was a stacked pair of black images, with smaller image in middle of 1st pass after it had dried for 30 minutes.

Color Density now at +25% for both from stock profile I made.

Large outer one:
L= 5.70 <--- Blacker than original profile above at 0%.)
a= -0.19
b= -1.49

Smaller inner one:
L= 2.22 <-- Much blacker and darker than 1st pass through.)
a= -0.15
b= -0.49

__________________

3rd one: Three passes with black patch in the middle of above double pass (3 passes total).

Color Density +50% for all three passes

Large outer one (1st pass.).
L= 6.28 <-- Lighter black than above with more ink at +50%.)
a= -.05
b= -1.15

Middle one (2nd pass).
L= 2.38 <-- About the same for second pass no matter the CD % setting.)
a= -0.08
b= -0.60

Third one (Smaller inner one. Third pass on the stack.).
L= 2.24 <-- Not a great difference than just passes.)
a= 0.42
b= 0.10


W.F.
 

Ink stained Fingers

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Inks need about a day until they are really dry - that all solvent - the water and glycoles are gone, current papers with microporous coatings today just create the 'instant dry' feel and impression.

It is correct that a higher ink density does not necessarily gives you a stronger color saturation - not just with black but with all colors , there is a point of saturation reversal .

You normally do the print of the patch sheet for profiling with the color controls option off, and when you print an image with that profile you use that same color control option off, and you cannot change any ink density in that mode. Why would you overprint just the black and use another mode ? You wouldn't do that with a regular print of an image ?

What type of paper are you using for the above tests - I'm getting a black of L=3 with the Canon PT101 paper with one print pass.
 

ClarenceL

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Properties section of the printer > Paper Configuration > Color Density you can got from Default 0% to either a -50 percent to a +50 percent.

I made a simple all black print in PhotoShop with RGB=0 or Lab=0. Then printed in on 4x6 inch glossy paper using my paper's profile.

Then I made another smaller black print same as above, but 2x3 inches and printed it over the above print (Or stacked.) after it dried for about 20 minutes.

I can see, in the first larger one, a bit of the paper's gloss with one of those cheap LED flashlights that has a bunch of small LEDs in the head. I can see each of the individual LEDs in the gloss of the larger image.

However, with the middle second one of the stacked print, the gloss is absent and dull (Matte like.) and it's hard to see the individual LEDs. Appears darker in the middle as well.

I'm thinking the initial ink load or color density of Default 0% is maybe too little?

I also ran a third smaller 1x1 inch image on the above stack, and more odd is the gloss came back on it and the individual reflection of the LEDs are visible. The second one is still dull. First is still glossy.

I don't know if increasing the Color Density to maybe 20% would make the difference between the first two initial ones less apparant and more blended?

Couldn't find much online about the Color Density in the Epson Properties setup and how to set it up to do a profile for the paper.

W.F
Which model of the EPSON printer? OEM Ink? Which ink model?
When you print the glossy paper, what paper media selected ?
The L value I would wonder if it's actually pigment K ink.
 

W. Fisher

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Epson 3880.
Cone High Density Pigment Black ink loaded.
Epson Ultra Premium Glossy Paper.

Below is a series of black patches I made from Color Density 0% to 50% using a profile for that above combination using the i1 Pro 2 Profiler.

Interesting part is the CD changes and the L value goes up from 20% to 30%. My best seems to be with a Color Density at +20%.

I did get a better black with some Ilford Galerie Glosssy by a point or two, but I ran out and used the Epson Ultra Premium Glossy paper. Also I recall the Epson gave me a better white than Ilford, but now a worse black.

I think I had good luck with the Canon Platinum Glossy mentioned too, but out here and stores don't have it in stock.

Color-Density-Test.jpg
 

W. Fisher

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Amazon had a Prime Days sale on paper so I grabbed some to try. It is called: PPD (i.e. Photo Paper Direct is the name ??) 255gsm/68lb Professional Photographer Grade Gloss Inkjet Photo Paper.

I may try making a normal profile, and then one made with a Color Density +20% and then repeat the CDpercentage load test and see what is different between the two profiles and if the Lab goes lower with the 20% profile.

I know by changing the black, gray, white tonal range also changes the colors saturation and hues, and why some editors use a Luninosity curve (Capture One 2022) instead of just a sRGB curve (Exposure X7 or ON1 Photo RAW 2022) as luminosity doesn't do so much dmage to the colors, but don't know if the same applies to the printer.

Also, I don't know if Cone's High-Density Photo Black may be less black than Epson's OEM Black?

Thx.

WF
 

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I stumbled across some claims by Conecolor/Inkjetmall about their matte black

the darkest Matte Black ink on Earth

I did some tests 15 months ago, against some other more regular matte black inks here

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/matte-inks-for-epson-printers.14396/#post-124829

This was a test with their matte black ink, and I would expect similar results with the high density photo black - it's not just the ink but always the combination of ink + paper delivering a great or normal or weak result.

What are your driver settings to print the patch sheet to create the profile ? With the Color Controls on or off ?
And why would you print with an active profile and Color Controls still on ?
 

W. Fisher

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I stumbled across some claims by Conecolor/Inkjetmall about their matte black

the darkest Matte Black ink on Earth

I did some tests 15 months ago, against some other more regular matte black inks here

https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/matte-inks-for-epson-printers.14396/#post-124829

This was a test with their matte black ink, and I would expect similar results with the high density photo black - it's not just the ink but always the combination of ink + paper delivering a great or normal or weak result.

What are your driver settings to print the patch sheet to create the profile ? With the Color Controls on or off ?
And why would you print with an active profile and Color Controls still on ?
Thanks for the link.

Was reading that you think the Epson T850, UltraChrome Photo Black Ink Cartridge was the blackest for glossy paper?

I was using the profiles I made in Qimage Ultimate, but it also allows in the Properties section to increase the Color Density as well. How and if that affect the initial profiles I made where I turned off the ink management I don't know. However, it does seem to change the profile somehow with the Lab values in the above prints.

New paper just came. Time to fire up the i1 PhotoPro 2.


Added later:

Getting paper off Amazon is risky. Last time they dropped the box and bent a corner about 2" in. I used it, but never could get rid of that crease.

This PPD paper comes in just the cellophane wrapper and no box. Only box was the brown cardboard Amazon box. No dents though. However, the flap on the cellophane wrapper's long covering flap is very sticky. So much so that if it contacts the paper you will have a very difficult time getting it unstuck without damaging the paper.. I cut that sticky flap off.


WF
 
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