Epson 1400/2400: CISS using quality aftermarket pigment ink

[pharmacist]

Does someone this forum have any experience using aftermarket pigment ink on these two printers ? The Epson 1400 uses Claria dye ink, but should be able to handle pigment ink as well (piezo printhead).

And what is the fading resistance of those aftermarket ink compared to the original K3 Ultrachrome inks ?

 

[websnail]

Ahhhhhh... *picks up Pharmacist and shakes him*

The 1400 has a printhead designed to use a dyebase ink... It is NOT the same as a pigment specific head like the 2400 and as a result it is unlikely to work as well, ie: more prone to clogging, etc...

I've never understood why people insist on trying to force a printer to use an ink it was never designed for when there's a perfectly good printer that is designed for that ink readily available..

Anyway... enough ranting... In answer to your question the result depends entirely on which inks you want to use and how good they are... I know Grandad did a load of testing with various other folks so perhaps the research data they got there could help.

 

[pharmacist]

Very strange: I saw on ebay there are several companies selling pigment ink especially for the 1400 Claria dye based printer.... And there is even a youtube movie showing the possibility of using pigment ink in a CISS on the 1400 printer and the external inktanks show definitely the characteristics of pigment ink (opaque milky look).

See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n6w3vvClHU&feature=related

 

[Tin Ho]

I had tried Epson compatible pigmented ink on a R300, which was designed to print dye based ink. It took only a few photos for the print head to clog. I had a tough time to unclog it. I actually gave it up and revisited the printer a few months later with a lot more patience. Finally unclogged the print head. Now it uses strictly dye ink only. There are compatible pigmented ink sold on ebay for Epson R300 still. I doubt if the sellers know what they are doing. The same ink works fine on a CX5400. I printed at least 2 or 3 dozens of photos in 8x10 size. Clearly the ink did not work on R300. I won't say all Epson compatible pigmented ink are the same. But I do believe it would be a risk trying to run pigmented ink through an Epson 1400.

 

[pharmacist]

So I have to stick to the R2400 then and use pigment ink only on these types of printer (R1800/R1900/R2400). I presume the CX5400 uses pigmented ink ?

 

[mikling]

I'm waiting for my ride to the airport and since I've been doing some work specifically related to this I'm going to chime in. As I've said before, using good quality cartridges properly prepared, they work with pigment inks. I have yet to perform a head cleaning after conversions but I do fire up the printer at least every three to four days to use it.

The R200, R220, R260, R380, R1400 series of printers presents an interesting family of products for the serious enthusiast on a tight budget the same can be said for the newer All On One Series as well.

Let me tell you why. The short answer is that pigment ink CAN be used with these printers. However you MUST get a proper ICC profile when doing so.

The R200, R220, R300, R320, R340 as well as the RX500, RX520, RX600 AIOs can use pigment ink. A good profile for these are not hard to generate with a good set of matched pigment inks. The gamut can be very good in fact, exceeding the Canon 5 tank but 4 color printers with distictly superior shadow detail. Of course the big benefit is archival properties and real print permanence. Properly profiled, the output is just a hair below that of the R2200.
Used working R200, R220 etc can be had for $20-$30 nowadays. When I look at the output I constantly question, do we need a better printer than this really? As for clogging, all pigment printers have issues with this issue to some degree, some larger than others. The best defense is to simply use it regularly, and know that after each conversion a good flush or major bout of printing is called for to flush out the other inks. This a bargain printer family for the person strapped on a budget and wants permanent prints and knows how to print using ICC profiles. The only downside is that this generation of printers does not possess as good a capping station as the newer printers and on solid colors, one can see some degree of grain on the output but only with a magnifying glass and certain colors.

The R260, R280 R380 R1400 family is superior to the R200. They are faster, produces no grain that I can see with the proper settings and will produce even better output. They are more difficult to profile and can generate a cyan cast if a profile was generated with just color patches is used for B&W printing. At first I thought it was not possible to get decent output for these printers. However, when a proper profile is generated with hundreds of patches and using extended gray patches as well, the output changes very much. Many hours of playing with media settings, printing evaluating output etc before I arrived at a setting which generated superior output to the R200. When I showed my wife the final settings it was WoW!
You can find some of these printers also used for a tad more than the R200. When I look at the nozzle patterns I get the distinct feeling that the head configuration is likely the same as the R800/R1800 and possibly the newer R1900. The newest R2880 I think has teflon coated heads however. In any case, this newer generation has a better capping station or one that seems to work better as there is less need for head cleaning even after extended periods of inactivity. This has been a consistent trait over several of these printers, so it looks like Epson finally got it right about nozzle drying issues.

As for the cheaper All in Ones, The best way to run these machines is with dye inks and then use a setting that uses all four colors during the print process based on media setting and ICC profiles.

Keep in mind that the printer will cost less than the inks for the printer so these conversions are for those who WANT archival pictures and don't have the budget for high end printers. As for clogging, we are dealing with pigment ink so you will need to understand this type of ink and what happens when it dries. This applies just the same as for the R800/R1800/R2400 as well.


When I get back I'll release the ink combinations with some matching profiles with certain papers but a custom profile is truly called for considering the potential output that you'd be missing otherwise. Additionally good pigments ink are not cheap so be forewarned. It's not a switch and play combination at all.

BTW, until June 30, 2008 buy a digital camera and get an R280 for free ( canada) with the Epson rebate! check their website for details. So in this case we a re looking at a serious bargain here.

 

[websnail]

Thanks for butting in Mikling, even if you've totally trounced my point

I'll be interested to read more on this but if I read this right what this boils down to is:
1. Get your inks right
2. You're going to spending a lot of time with profiles
3. Suitably sourced cartridges are a must (no refilling empties without some serious flushing!)
4. Once you start with pigment you'll need to stay with it and with the ink you started with.


All in all... I have to admit I still find it odd that folks want to switch a dyebase printer to pigment when suitable pigment printers already exist but hey, I mess with CIS kits and try to get printers to do things they were designed deliberately not to allow without a fight so who am I to judge...

 

[pharmacist]

Mikling,

Thanks for your reply. So it is possible to use pigment ink on the Epson 1400 printer. Since you are selling Image Specialists inks can I use the inks you are selling ? I am not sure whether I will buy a 1400 or the 2400 printer.

 

[lin]

Hi pharmacist

Even though you asking on Epson printer, I hope you don't mind me mentioning this, Canon came up with pigment ink printer, PIXMA MX7600 as well. I only read about the release of this new printer last month. Though I think it was announced somewhere between Jan-Feb 08. Not too sure the exact date of the release. However, the price of this printer is unfortunately very steep.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=123&modelid=16506

 

[mikling]

I am away but the key point is printing archival on the "cheap".

The R2400 is a better printer by all counts but even used ones are pricey. We're talking about sub $50 printers that are widely available used. I saw some R1400s for less than $200 new. That's what makes them enticing and so flavorful. The output quality will not match the R2400 but is darn close. Choice of media is important as well. The R800/1800/1900 has the gloss optimizer which which makes media choice much more flexible.

Like I said, search for those Epson rebates and you've got a treat. Just as they intended.