CANON vs EPSON please advise

[dx333me]

I've been reading the Neil's Inkjet Page with interest. Since I'm considering to get a new inkjet printer myself, could anybody shed some light in this issue. I am considering Canon Pixma ip3500 or ip4500 or ix4000(A3) or Epson Sylus Photo R290 or 1390(A3).

Is it true that Epson printer could not last as long as Canon printer can? Currently I'm using Canon i6100 for more than 6yrs with non OEM refill ink without any problem. Would really appreciate any advice on this or anything else with regard to the printer I should be considering. I want a printer that can produce good graphic but printed text must be reasonable since I sometime need to print mixture of text and graphic- already got a laser printer for text.

Thanks

 

[jflan]

IMO, for an all-purpose, it's very hard to beat a Canon CLI-8 class.
Others will have their favorites.
You might be interested in this thread by CDan from another forum :
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f123/printer-comparison-epson-vs-canon-230213/

 

[websnail]

Printhead wise, the Epson is going to win compared to a Canon because the Epson is a cold process compared to Canons boiling one which will eventually kill the head or parts of it... however the Epson still requires TLC to keep it running and can clog considerably. Add to that, the Epsons tend to waste more ink so you have to weigh up the pro's and con's.

For my money I prefer the Canon printers in terms of output quality and the fact that you can disable the chip functionality for CIS's but I temper that with the knowledge that I have had no end of problems with it and in truth haven't used an Epson printer younger than the D88 so I'm not really in a position to be unbiased or completely informed.

Given that you're a refiller, there's a chip resetter out there and the iP4500 is a nice unit with good output I'd say head in that direction but I'd do it soon as the 4500's are disappearing fast.

 

[pharmacist]

The biggest problem with Epson printhead clogging is in fact air. Bad refilled cartridges with air bubbles -even very tiny- can cause severe clogging, making it very difficult to remove and making you to waste alot of ink before the problem is resolved. The most critical step is to remove the smallest amount of air from your cartridge before installing it in your Epson printer.

Epson's latest models like the R2880 and the Pro 3800 have special teflon coated printheads to repel the ink from the nozzles minimising clogged printheads even after weeks of standstill. For best glossy printing go for dye based printers. Pigment ink printer is ok for matte and semi matte papers, but less favourable for optimal glossy printouts (albeit still acceptable with the latest K3 insets or Ultrachrome with gloss optimizer).

 

[IGExpandingPanda]

I've been reading the Neil's Inkjet Page with interest. Since I'm considering to get a new inkjet printer myself, could anybody shed some light in this issue. I am considering Canon Pixma ip3500 or ip4500 or ix4000(A3) or Epson Sylus Photo R290 or 1390(A3).

Is it true that Epson printer could not last as long as Canon printer can? Currently I'm using Canon i6100 for more than 6yrs with non OEM refill ink without any problem. Would really appreciate any advice on this or anything else with regard to the printer I should be considering. I want a printer that can produce good graphic but printed text must be reasonable since I sometime need to print mixture of text and graphic- already got a laser printer for text.

Thanks

I've not met the ix4000. I don't think they offer this model in the states. The main complaints I've heard about it is a paper length limitation. It's the same as the desktop printers just under 60cm (594mm IIRC). This likely wouldn't actually be an issue with me as the largest I tend to print is a3+, but obviously it is an issue with others.

My experience is similar to websnail, my Epson R200 didn't last through the warranty period. Those sub $100 models with durabrite inks clutter up the second hand stores. But my 1520 was worth the investment even if it was a temperamental beast. I've only had a used 1280 for a year, but the fact that it's still operational after serving it's time in an art studio, and me tossing, well, only 50 prints in the past year.

I can't speak for the r280/r290.

 

[mikling]

I agree with pharmacist about the Epson printers.
It really comes down to your needs. IF you intend to print much text and office related work with a smattering of photos then Canon printers with separate tanks might be an ideal choice. However if you intend to print much photos with only a smattering of text & office work, then consider an Epson.
If you hardly print, then you may want to consider a printer with heads integrated into the cartridges.

Keep in mind the issue about air with regards to Epson because years ago, this class of problem caused no end of issues with Epsons. There were many poorly designed cartridges and poor quality compatibles which were not spongeless or improperly filled. Do not consider the 4 cartridge printers from Epson. Start with a 6 cartridge model and up...thus only photomodels.

I'm not sure the teflon coating is for head clogging issues but I think it is better suited for low surface tension and the ability to allow better and faster ejection of properly shaped dots. It also helps a bit with clogging as the ink will more likely return to the pool at the nozzle tip Its most important effect might be that it improves the active meniscus control at the nozzles. Think about a drop of water dropping into a quiet pool in reverse. After the drop leaves the pool ( nozzle) the pool will create waves in the water when it detaches. Active meniscus control creates a vibration by the nozzle that neutralizes these waves so that the pool no longer has waves ( antiwaves). That way the ink at the nozzle is not vibrating when the nozzle is ready to shoot ink out again. Incredible engineering that really goes unnoticed.

While Canon printers do produce smaller droplets, looked at carefully one will see ( with mechanical assistance) that the droplets are not clean round dots but more like spatterings unlike that of better Epson models.

Both brands are creating good printers but are superior in different areas.

 

[dx333me]

Thank you all for your advice and time. This is very helpful to me.

I also been going tru some of the posts in the forum on this issue, and here are what I understand thus far:-

Canon Pixma ip4500
Pros - great all rounder, can be refilled but need a resetter if want to keep the supplied monitoring software working, not much ink wastage hence
the pad can last longer, I am using Canon i6100 (A3) for sometimes now without much complaints hence a bit of attachment/trust in the
brand I guess.
Cons - can't print banner coz of length limitation. I am worried when eventually the waste ink pad need sevicing, can I DIY and reset the printer
(need to search some more for this)


Epson Stylus Photo 1390
Pros - can print A3+,great for photos, can print banner ( downloaded the UDPS file to enable long banner printing), refillable cart with auto reset
chip available and working, Can Mod the waste tank (saw some tutorial guide but not so sure, coz no tutorial for 1390 found), waste ink
pad can be resetted (downloaded the utility from http://indoreset.blogspot.com/ but have not read about anybody's experience in
using thisprogram).
Cons - not good with text, can waste a lot of ink to the waste tank (hence need to be serviced faster than Canon I guess), for heavy usage - need
to mod the waste ink and reset (can something go wrong during the process and the printer will be damaged?)


Well, I'm looking at this from my perspective (without much knowledges on this issue except what I read in this forum). I also know that this is not like an apple to an apple comparison for the two printers. I read some reviews that Epson R230 or R290 is badly build that they can't last that long hence my choice for the Epson 1390 and I like its ability to print banner but don't know how bad is the text. Whereas I like the Canon iP4500 coz it is good at everything but it can't do banner. My older Cannon i6100 has that limitation as well.

Anymore advices or correction to my info are much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[IGExpandingPanda]

Anymore advices or correction to my info are much appreciated. Thanks again.

A couple of corrections

1) The Epson 1390 AFAIK doesn't support rolls. It has a banner length limitation that can be overcome with the right software, but it's not roughly 600mm. I have no personal experience with rolls.

2) Objectively an Epson given ideal circumstances, an external waste tank + reset, a tab of window cleaner as needed, will operate longer than Canon with less investment costs.

(2) I address because canons use thermal printheads which have a limited life span. The manual, when you crunch the numbers, works out to be about 10 cartridge changes per color before the head and printer are "end of life" by Canon standards. I can say 15 cartridge changes before I swapped out my head, others say 20-30. The way I see it, it's a hidden cost of about $1.00 per cartridge you put in, and anything after 50 is a bonus.

Pro Canon -> you can throw money at it and fix it
Pro Epson -> you can throw window cleaner at it

 

[websnail]

Canon Pixma ip4500
(snip)
Cons - can't print banner coz of length limitation. I am worried when eventually the waste ink pad need sevicing, can I DIY and reset the printer
(need to search some more for this)

Some work has been done on the waste ink side of things and to be honest it's a bit of a question as to whether it's worth modifying the printer to use an external tank or not. (ref #1, #2 (follow up)

The reset itself is usually quite easy though and just a case of pressing and holding buttons for X flashes, then Y flashes, etc.. to reset the relevant EEPROM setting.

Epson Stylus Photo 1390
(snip)
Can Mod the waste tank (saw some tutorial guide but not so sure, coz no tutorial for 1390 found), waste ink
pad can be resetted (downloaded the utility from http://indoreset.blogspot.com/ but have not read about anybody's experience in
using thisprogram).
Cons - not good with text, can waste a lot of ink to the waste tank (hence need to be serviced faster than Canon I guess), for heavy usage - need
to mod the waste ink and reset (can something go wrong during the process and the printer will be damaged?)

Right... on this I'm a bit more familiar.. the 1390 is much the same as the 1400 in the UK and as luck would have it (and I do mean LUCK!) I was able to get a customer of mine to provide some detailed photos on how to modify the 1400 to use an external waste ink tank so I've a guide to write up today. Good timing!

As to the program.. it's probably the adjustment utility in which case you would need to change your system clock to get the program to work (Epson have their utilities date protected now which is just pointless) and then go through a few steps to reinitialise the waste ink counter. Takes more time to sort the clock than resolve the counter. However you must take care not to reset or change anything else as that can really fubar your printer.

So, hopefully that answers all the issues on that score

 

[IGExpandingPanda]

I have had Epsons and Canons and I found that Canons are far superior in printing photos. The primary reason is very simple and you can be the judge yourself. Canon print heads are far higher in nozzle count and density. This fact not only makes Canon printers much faster it is the primary reason that Canons simply out peform Epson printers in similar class always.

I'll have to check into this issue of nozzle density. The fact is I don't know the distance the nozzles are a part from each other. I can see that the 1390 has 90 nozzles per tank, so a total of 540 if this info is correct.

The ip4300 for example has 512 nozzles for text, and prints at about 600dpi, 30pl each drop or about 85% of an inch per stroke. But we can ignore since the Epsons don't pretend to support text.

The color nozzles are 1024 for cyan and black (512 each IIRC), and 512 for the black and yellow (256 each IIRC). AFAIK, this makes 256 1pl nozzles Cyan + the same for Magenta, 256 5pl nozzles for Cyan + Magenta, and just 256 black 5pl nozzles, 256 5pl nozzles.

The 90 Epson nozzles employ variable drop sizes, so they would act in a similar way to a ip4600 which has three sets of nozzles for Cyan and Magenta.

Canon seems to have a greater number, perhaps a greater density. But notice that yellow and black don't have a small nozzle size. RC papers this is usually not an issue. Swellable polymer papers, you can actually see the difference with. You can often notice artifacting with the yellow and shadow areas. This is likely one reason Kodak and HP archival papers are not recommended for the Canon.

So I will agree fully that the Canon has the potential to kick off a photo more quickly, or do so at a lower noise and wobble level, and having several sets of nozzles isn't really a negative in it self. There is a negative the fact that yellow and black don't offer the same sized nozzles on some papers.