Canon Pro9000 ll colour shift noticeable in greys

[Emulator]

I upgraded to a Canon Pixma Pro9000 ll about a year ago, when the cashback offer was made. As many others have found, the cost of OEM cartridges, prompted a search for a cheaper solution, which materialised in the form of NiftyStuff and all its contributors.

May I say thank you to all, for providing the solutions and much entertainment.

I think I found the most absorbing was the saga of the chip. Which proved to be less of a threat than was speculated.

Trying to follow The Hats helpful check list:

Located in UK, daily use for photo. Refilled about 3 times.

I am using top refill OEM cartridges, with OctoInkJet (Image Specialists) inks, Photo Paper Direct 280g Glossy Photo Paper (micro porous), Data Color Spyder 3 monitor calibration and SpyderPrint profiling of ink and paper.

Now my first problem, which concerns a colour shift visible in printing mid greys, noticeable if RGB values are around 186. I first noticed it while printing the image PrinterEvaluationImage_V002_ProPhoto.tif (which is available on numerous web sites)

The image has a thin border of 186 grey and after about half an inch of print, this changed from the initial shade to a grey with a distinct brownish tinge. I think this colour shift occurred in all parts of the print, but was only noticeable in the greys.

I have been searching for a solution for sometime. My suspicion tended towards clogged breather passages in the top of the cartridges, but having purged the cartridges until all traces of colour have been removed, before refilling, I still have not corrected the resulting prints. Unfortunately I do not now have OEM ink to test for this effect.

I have also tried cleaning the ceramic priming system filters with Mr Muscle Kitchen spray cleaner (specially formulated to tackle tough kitchen grease and grime fast and effectively, anti-bacterial, leaves kitchen surfaces sparkling clean)(contains among other not stated ingredients, less than 5% non-ionic surfactants, EDTA) (Do not use on gold plated fittings)(avoid prolonged contact with wood, enamel, aluminium, painted, lacquered or soft porous surfaces.) (Avoid prolonged skin contact, wash and dry hands after use.) Flooding the ceramic surface for about 30 seconds lifted the black coating into many colours and left a clean grey surface. I included the details for those that take an interest in the chemistry.

I have ensured that the printer colour management is set to none. I am using Photoshop Elements 8 and Canon Easy PhotoPrint Pro with the Spyder profile, with similar results.

Switching to a Canon Glossy profile produces much lighter, less saturated colours with lighter brown-greys (rather than greys) and a hardly noticeable colour shift in the first half inch. This profile is not a good match to the paper.

In other respects the Spyder profiled prints of the evaluation image are excellent and satisfy all the described judgement criteria associated with this test image.

I would be interested to know if anyone else finds this colour shift in greys, which is visible on Photoshop created 186 grey test strips as well.

Please read color for colour and gray for grey depending on your orientation!

Regards Ian

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Hmm, Very interesting.

I have fundamentally the same setup, and have suffered from a similar problem since using SpyderPrint. In fact last week I posted the following message on a Datacolor forum:

-----Message as below----------------------------
The following comments relate to my problems with the Spyder 3 print,
which I have owned since about 2009.

In the main I have been satisfied with the profiles is produces except
that without exception the first output is excessively warm and I then
resort to manual adjustments to get a more neutral profile.

Unfortunately this adjustment is very difficult for me, requiring much
trial, error, paper, ink, time and angst. Eventually I get what I
consider an acceptable profile, but it is time consuming and
frustrating.

The point of my story is that on a whim I asked friend to lend me his
Colomunki Photo. To my surprise the first profile which took only a
few minutes was spot on, or a least as good as the Spyder profiles
which were taking me a couple of hours per profile using multiple
sheets of paper with all the adjustments.

I do not know if anybody is even reading this, and realize this brief
message does not give much information for comment. However I am
shocked at the simplicity and effectiveness of the Colormunki
procedure.

Is the Colormunki really that much better than the Spyder? Anybody
have any comments about the relative merits of the two devices. I
have been using Spyder products since 2002, and had not considered a
change until this event. I thought it best to discuss in a Spyder
friendly forum first.

-------end of posted message.-----------

I would be interested in comments from anybody on the Nifty-stuff site

Roy Sletcher

 

[rodbam]

I've been getting very good results with the Colormunki Roy but I don't know about the grey problem. I've tried profiling for B&W prints by optimising the colormunki profile but the only way I can get neutral B&W prints is by using Canon easy print Pro plug in in Photoshop. Letting Photoshop handle the printing my B&W prints have a slight colour cast.

 

[Emulator]

I agree with your comments Roy, particularly about the paper usage attempting to adjust out the warm colours.

The serial no. of my spectro is 207212 for comparison purposes in case it is a batch problem.

There is a commercial review of SpyderPrint3 on the web which described problems related to cleaning the white tile and the tip of the sensor to remove colour particles which might bias the readings. But overall their conclusion related the problem to misreading the patches.

I have found it is perhaps easier to adjust out the colour bias on the Canon printer colour management controls, which seem to work despite setting none on the next page.

The high gloss resin coated paper I am using tends to show the white patch as blue-ish. There are warnings about this. I tried calibrating the spectro on the paper and this produced a grey-ish white. But it did not correct the grey shift problem, which seems to be a separate issue.

For the colour to change while printing a bar of colour, I think must be related to ink flow, I cant see how anything else can influence it. I hope the experts might comment on this.

Ian

 

[Roy Sletcher]

I agree with your comments Roy, particularly about the paper usage attempting to adjust out the warm colours.

The serial no. of my spectro is 207212 for comparison purposes in case it is a batch problem.

There is a commercial review of SpyderPrint3 on the web which described problems related to cleaning the white tile and the tip of the sensor to remove colour particles which might bias the readings. But overall their conclusion related the problem to misreading the patches.

I have found it is perhaps easier to adjust out the colour bias on the Canon printer colour management controls, which seem to work despite setting none on the next page.

The high gloss resin coated paper I am using tends to show the white patch as blue-ish. There are warnings about this. I tried calibrating the spectro on the paper and this produced a grey-ish white. But it did not correct the grey shift problem, which seems to be a separate issue.

For the colour to change while printing a bar of colour, I think must be related to ink flow, I cant see how anything else can influence it. I hope the experts might comment on this.

Ian

Hi Ian, Not forgetting my good Aussie buddy Rod,

A few comments, as I was interrupted in my post last night and did not complete everything I wanted to say. So here goes for round 2:

1: I have had my Spyder3Print Spectro since Dec 2008. Serial Number: 029668. I think it predates your model by a few years, yet interestingly the same problems persist. Interestingly I have been using the same test image as you. The main issue for me is it is of known colour values, comes with interpretive data, and takes any monitor variables out of the evaluation equation. I have test profiles going back over 5 years and the "warm image" problem has been constant. Usually I modify my Spyder Profile to try and neutralize the warm colour cast. Also if the colour bar changes colour It suggests inkflow. Couple of years back I seemed to have that problem with the centre to lighter step wedge appearing a decided yellowish tint intead of grey. Can't remember what I did to remove it.

2: I had a reply from my posting on the Spyder forums from David Tobie no less. It was a hurried response and he promised more details later. The essence being that my problem was USER ERROR and I should carefully review my methods of printing the targets. Interestingly he commented on the CM tendency to produce plugged shadows and three quarter tones. As it turned out my CM and Spyder both produced the plugged shadows, and I had not mentioned it because I considered it a lesser problem. My main focus being on the overly warm image overall. Also Although I thought ist unlikely my technique was at fault I WILL review my procedures because from past experience know I am quick to blame software and hardware, yet the fault lies with me more often than not.

"The fault is not in the stars, dear Brutus, but in ourselves....... (William you know who)"

3: He did say he would give a more detailed response later (Not holding my breath), but he did draw my attention to an addition to his blog giving guidance about how to edit SPYDER profiles to correct the colour. You may find it helpful. The link to his blog is as follows:

http://cdtobie.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/tuning-color-profiles-to-specific-display-conditions/

One last comment - I have been looking into getting a Colormunki for print profiling, but see a PHOTO model and a DESIGN model on eBay. Both seem to have similar specs, but the design model usually much cheaper. (I Am a cheapskate) Any insite into the relative merits of the two version.

Better end now, the more written, the less people read. The matter is not closed for me, and still looking into options.

Roy Sletcher

 

[Emulator]

Hi Roy and Rod(I have read many of your comments with interest, over the last few months while getting up to speed)

Regarding your last comment Roy, write as much as you wish, it is all very useful information and we are here to solve a problem, not for the casual reader!! The useful posts always get lengthy.

Responding by your para number:

1. I agree, it suggests the spectros are consistently set to whatever level Datacolor has chosen. I find that the profile softproof screen images closely match the master image on the screen, but do not match, by a long chalk, on a softproof printout. The warm cast invariably appears and I have tended to adjust Brightness +5, Y +15 B, C 15 R to correct under Advanced Settings. Similar adjustments on the Canon printer Color Management, color adjustment sliders (the page before the none page) have a similar effect, with printer management turned off. I sure B&W specialists would say that getting the right grey tone is much more difficult than with full colour. It surprises me that these effects are not noticeable in most colour images.

2. I read David Tobies blog and it closely resembled the web review I mentioned, highlighting reading errors. Having read up a Datacolor blog, I find their suggestion that placing the target vertically and scanning upwards, away from you, gives better control and fewer errors. However, his comments about the display environment sliders, are interesting. I have not touched those controls yet, but they may be the solution. I wonder what environment matches the centre settings? I will try some tests using his suggestion of four images per page.

3. I look forward to reading any further comments from David Tobie, that you receive and leave the CM question for Rod to comment.

Thanks to all,
Regards Ian

 

[The Hat]

Guys would you not consider taking a leaf out of Rodhams book and give his way a try just once.
He has always said that his inks work great for him without too much profiling at all.

I tend to go along with his principal of letting Photoshop and printer handle the colours and just tweak it a bit if its necessary to get that extra Wow factor.

I know this guy spends all of his time upside-down but he definitely seems to be doing something right, O' he keeps his printer the right way up to be sure that his ink doesnt leak out..

 

[Emulator]

Good afternoon to The Hat

I write with some trepidation when addressing the aristocracy of this site. I have also read many of your posts over the last few months.

I can only apologies for the appalling weather we are currently sending to you, however it is brightening up here, for a short period. They should not have made such a thing about the drought conditions and hose pipe ban, it clearly indicates that a higher authority does listen!!

I think I know the reason for Rods satisfaction with the colour settings. They clearly have been designed down under to match the inevitable light brown of the outback. Where as the Emerald Isle and UK require special profiles to match the beautiful green foliage.

Regards to all
Ian

 

[The Hat]

Good afternoon to The Hat

I write with some trepidation when addressing the aristocracy of this site. I have also read many of your posts over the last few months.

I can only apologies for the appalling weather we are currently sending to you, however it is brightening up here, for a short period. They should not have made such a thing about the drought conditions and hose pipe ban, it clearly indicates that a higher authority does listen!!

I think I know the reason for Rods satisfaction with the colour settings. They clearly have been designed down under to match the inevitable light brown of the outback. Where as the Emerald Isle and UK require special profiles to match the beautiful green foliage.

Regards to all
Ian

Hi Ian
You mean just like the Titanic, drought what bloody drought and theres no dam lifeboats either.
Rod maybe working from an advantage as you say but he still gets some lovely prints with his methods..

 

[Grandad35]

...snip....
I have ensured that the printer colour management is set to none. I am using Photoshop Elements 8 and Canon Easy PhotoPrint Pro with the Spyder profile, with similar results....snip....

I believe that Canon's Easy PhotoPrint only uses Canon profiles and ignores all other driver settings, including different profiles. I would only use that program when using OEM ink and Canon paper.