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Can ICC profile that has been created by Xrite i1 publish pro 2 be edited?

Discussion in 'Everything Else InkJet Printer Related' started by lin, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Apr 10, 2017
    lin

    lin Printer Guru

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    Hi May I know if ICC profile that has been created by Xrite i1 publish pro 2 can it be edited?

    I've gotten someone to create an icc profile for me. I asked whether he/she is able to help fine tune the icc profile he/she had created for me to be just a little brighter (less dark). But he/she said cannot. Later, as I asked further, he/she said he/she has never edited icc profile after it has been created as such doesn't know how to do so. I am not too sure is it due to the limitation of the Xrite i1 publish pro 2 device/software such that the icc profile created cannot be edited further or I have found someone who is inexperience to create an icc profile for me.

    As far as I understand he/she uses the Xrite i1 publish pro 2 and using the i1profiler 1600 color chart/patch.
    The icc profile he or she had created for me is just fine (I don't have high expectation) just that I wishes that it would be less dark or rather just a little bit brighter.
     
  2. Apr 10, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    there is an option within i1Profiler to refine the profile with a specific patch set of your choice, but this is not an option to tune the overall output of such profile. Changing the lightness should be done in a previous step before printing, or the overall workflow should be evaluated why this is considered necessary. It could be, as a typical cause for such request that the brightness and gamma settings are adjusted too high on the monitor , corrections are made to the image, and the print output is too dark. The monitor brightness is typically fixed but prints are viewed in lots of cases in an arbitrary lighting condition, room light whatever. You may go a step further in such case and use a special viewing box with fixed and controlled light inside - brightness, color temperature and spectral continuity - CRI - color rendition index. But beyond that - what would you expect or not from the profile - 'I don't have high expectation' .
    Editing a profile is typically not done, a profile provides standardized color rendition and output within the constraints of the gamut and depending on the rendering intent, other image manipulations should be done before print in whatever photo editing software.
     
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  3. Apr 14, 2017
    lin

    lin Printer Guru

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    Thanks for your input. I guess then I probably would have to get another icc profile created if needed.
     
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  4. Jun 24, 2017
    lin

    lin Printer Guru

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    coming back to this.
    Since the first icc profile the seller created is a bit dark and according to you guys and the seller who does not know how to edit icc profile once it has been created, that would meant that I need to get the seller to re-create a new profile. I would have to pay a second time to the seller since it would be a new profile to make it less dark. As I want to minimize waste of more money to create profile again and again, so to ensure that this time I convey right to the seller

    How should I tell the seller (the person who does profiling service) since I do not know the process of how Xrite i1 publish pro 2 create a profile. Is it that I need to ask the seller to edit the original 1600 color chart/patch to darker/lighter for me to print again and ship over to him/her?

    I am still kind of surprised that icc profile cannot be edited by Xrite i1 publish pro 2 after it was created because even profile prism software can edit the profile after it was created.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  5. Jun 24, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    As explained earlier I'm using i1Profiler but I'm not aware how to tune a profile lighter or darker since this is not the purpose of a profile. I would typically do some adjustments in the program I'm using for printout - Qimage - e.g. adjusting the image gamma slightly.

    There is a question directly connected to it - the printout appears to be too dark compared to ??? your monitor ? or viewed in a light box ? If this is your assumption you may read some other comments to this effect here http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/why-are-my-prints-too-dark/
    And I would guess that you get a good enough profile with about 1000 patches - 1 A4 sheet unless to need to print particular colors correctly , with the abs. col. rendering intent.
     
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  6. Jun 24, 2017
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    If you are 100% certain that the profile is a bit dark, and it is not your setup or printing that is causing the problem, then you need to discuss thus with the profile maker as he has not supplied what you paid for.

    Most reputable profile makers that I have researched are willing to work with their client if there is a measurable problem with the profile.

    Usual disclaimer. I have not prurchased a profile for over 12 years, but am currently researching what is available. This is because I want better profiles than my Colormunki can produce, but am ubwiilling to spend the big bucks for the hardware. I am open to suggestions for a good source.

    Addressing your final sentence. Giving endusers the tools to edit profiles based on their "whim of the day" and not accurate measurement is self defeating and short sighted. If the profile is not accurate the solutions is to make an accurate profile, not trial and error adjustments.

    For the record, I was an early adopter of Profile prism probably 20 years ago. At that time, and with the technology then available to the home user is was ground breaking for a laymen like me. It has been obsolete and irrelevcent for over a decade. Don't tell Mile Cheney I said that else he may cut off my access to Qimage. :)

    rs
     
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  7. Jun 24, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Vuescan is using the same approach as Profile Prism - creating a correction table based on the scan results of an IT8 target, and the same comment would apply
     
  8. Jun 24, 2017
    apetitphoto

    apetitphoto Printing Ninja

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    So, is a colormunki profile worth the ink and paper it requires?
    ( Yes, I do realize that the answer may be in the form of "That depends...")
     
  9. Jun 24, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

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    Yes, ColorMunki will measure quite accurately how much color saturation you can get at the various corners of the color space, but as shown here in posting #9 50 control points are not good enough to cover more intricate non-linearities. You can run a refinement cycle which may be helpful for better skin colors or B/W printing.
    https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/profiling-and-such-some-observations.11687/#post-98969
    And a Colormunki profile will remove any overall color cast you may get from 3rd party inks and papers.
    Colormunki profiles won't be accurate enough for commercial printing jobs, correct color rendition in the abs. colorimetric rendering mode e.g. when it comes to accurate Pantone colors etc but that's not the intended application range of that package.
     
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  10. Jun 24, 2017
    Roy Sletcher

    Roy Sletcher Indolent contrarian Platinum Printer Member

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    I may have inadvertantly given the wrong impression.

    The amswer to you question is an unqualified yes if your base for comparison is compared to other budget solutions.

    However it is an entry level unit and produced at budget prices. It measures 50+50 patches which is percieved as a limitation, but to paraphrase Andrew Rodney, it gives amazing profiles within that limitation.

    One of my reasons for looking to purchase a quality custom profile is to see if I can perceive a MEANINGFUL difference for the modest outlay of a custom profile. I would hate to spend in the region of CAD$1,500 on better hardware to find I could not see the difference. :(

    rs
     
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