1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Picture Of The Week (POW) Information and Submissions
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Official PK Poll: Is there any future in refilling?
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice
  4. PK Featured Thread: A Real Cool Upgrade to Improve your 3D Printing...
    CLICK HERE!
    (if you are logged in, this notice can be dismissed using the "x" to the top right of the notice)

    Dismiss Notice

3rd Party dye ink fade Test...!

Discussion in 'Canon InkJet Printers' started by The Hat, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. Jun 2, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    10,775
    Likes Received:
    4,782
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Location:
    Wicklow Ireland
    Printer Model:
    Canon were, BUT 3D is better..
    To start with, and to save guys reading back to some old threads, this is how I setup my test.

    I used 4 different types of papers for my test sheets on a 4 colour iP4500 and set to high quality, so nothing fancy using the 3rd party dye ink that I’ve has had for quite some time.

    The paper types used were plain 80 gm copier, a Premium 120 gm copier, an unknown 90 gm Matte Photo paper and Sihl glossy photo paper from Lidl, one set was laminated and the other set wasn’t

    I placed the test sheets in a south facing shed window on the 28th of April and removed them on the 1st June, that was 34 days exposure to whatever the weather was at the time, I can’t measure the UV or ozone levels so there’s no point in asking...

    Now you can clearly see from the results just how well or bad theses inks and papers stood up to the harsh exposure placed upon them, under normal circumstances no one in their right mind would actually do this to their own prints and expect them not be badly affected also.

    I have cut the test sheets into 3 pieces and laid them out side by side, I have named them Laminated, naked, (Unlaminated) and the originals (Not exposed) in 4 categories Photo Glossy Paper, Premium Copy Paper, Matte Photo Paper and Plain Copy paper.
    Glossy.jpg Premium Coper.jpg
    Matte.jpg
    Copy paper.jpg
    I did this test to show that ALL dye inks will fade when exposed to harsh UV and ozone conditions, no matter how much you try to protect them, regardless of which brand of dye ink and paper you use, this is just how all dye inks will behave in the wrong environment.

    Now some might gather from this test that 3rd party dye inks are no good for displaying photo around your house, but that assumption would be completely wrong, a total falsehood.

    Because I have photos hanging in my house and they still look pretty darn good despite the many years then have been there, but I wouldn’t for a moment ever think of selling prints made with 3rd party inks, that would be fool hardy, because pigment inks are essential for any commercial venture...
     
    videobruce, rodbam, Smile and 4 others like this.
  2. Jun 2, 2017
    Ink stained Fingers

    Ink stained Fingers Printer Master

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,725
    Likes Received:
    2,824
    Trophy Points:
    243
    Location:
    Germany
    Printer Model:
    L310, L382, L800, Pro 7600
    It's a clear result you are getting, the fading performance depends very much on the paper type, the black ink appears to be the weakest ink, not just getting lighter but changing the color to brown and lamination has just some effect but not as much as some people might expect. Lamination should be used for the purpose of mechanical protection, protection against water/splashes/humidity and added rigidity of the sheet but not primarily as a UV shield
     
    The Hat likes this.
  3. Jun 2, 2017
    kdsdata

    kdsdata Fan of Printing

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2017
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Calgary, AB Canada
    Printer Model:
    PIXMA Pro-100 / Xerox 6515 WC
    @The Hat: Thanks so much for this kind of work. It really helps to actually see results. It's fairly obvious that paper makes a big difference. I would not have guessed that. Some difference yes, simply because of the image rendition, but not to that extend. Again, thanks for your work. User input is the reason why I am on this forum.
     
    The Hat and Flying Scotsman like this.
  4. Jun 2, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    10,775
    Likes Received:
    4,782
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Location:
    Wicklow Ireland
    Printer Model:
    Canon were, BUT 3D is better..
    Never judge a book by its cover, yes dye inks do fade with time but we have the choice of reprinting the photo again if we so wish, and all of this is down to the low price of the 3rd party inks.

    Here is a test sheet that I have had in my hallway on a shelf for the past 6 years, there’s nothing special about it, and some of it has faded, but it still looks good, and the question is, would it look any better if it were printed on the same paper using OEM inks ?.
    swatch 11-5--11.jpg

    The original test swatch below was taken from an old post back in 2011..
    Colour chart.png
    This Pic was replaced and update 3rd Jun with the archived original.
    Longevity comes at a very high price when exclusively using OEM dye inks, in my mind it’s just not worth it to have a photo looking good for a bit longer for such a high price, the 3rd party dye ink suppliers adequately covers the home market...

    P.S. I will be dragging out the old China Tea set next... :eek:
     
    Ink stained Fingers likes this.
  5. Jun 2, 2017
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Master

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    706
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Germany Ruhrgebiet
    @The Hat, let me thank you too for testing dye on different papers.
    The glossy photo paper is best by far, and I'm surprised that the matte photo paper seems to be almost as bad as plain copy paper.
    What paper brand was glossy and matte? And the ink?

    Lamination seems to improve fading more (plain paper) or less (glossy), but I don't like laminated photographs, it's too plasticky without the special feel of a good photo paper

    My conclusion would be less "black and white" regarding fading of dye and pigment. Your own result on glossy quite is quite good, and canon OEM dye "chromalife+" would be most probably still much better than this.
    https://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/refilling-canon-with-oem-ink.10712/page-7#post-98785
    And even for commercial use, one should note that some mini drylabs from noritsu, fuji, epson are printing with dye instead of pigment..
     
    Ink stained Fingers likes this.
  6. Jun 3, 2017
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,419
    Likes Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    373
    Location:
    USA
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP830, Pencil
    Why do all the Lidl test print Blacks look better than the original? o_O

    What happened with the Grey swath on the Pro9500 print? :ep

    For my needs --- agree!
     
  7. Jun 3, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    10,775
    Likes Received:
    4,782
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Location:
    Wicklow Ireland
    Printer Model:
    Canon were, BUT 3D is better..
    @martin0reg, This test was only done to show that paper really does matter and not to highlight the quality of the dye inks, had I let the test sheets get more exposure then the inks would have been devastated and that was not my intention, but fade they do !, the colour inks were I.S. stock and FotoRite BK black.

    While the lamination was to show that it helps stop Ozone, but it won’t stop fading from occurring eventually anyway, I used the Sihl glossy photo paper from Lidl and a good quality 90 gm Matte Photo paper, I don’t have the label on the pack any longer, so it’s an unknown brand, sorry.

    My reference to commercial use of pigment inks were only to the home user and Pro hobbyist wishing to sell their prints, and not for the high street drylab studios.

    Maybe that was due to the scanning process, but the dye black is showing a little bit of magenta hue in the original, I only included this test print from 2011 to highlight that dye inks can hold their quality in a normal home environment.

    This single test sheet was cut/paste it from Nifty/2011 and may have suffered some loss in the conversion, so I have replaced it with the archived original I had on a CD. (Updated)

    The original reason for this test was to show that it was possible to get a good grey colour from a 3 colour dye printer without the need for any black involved, and then I did the same below it with a 4 colour machine, I didn’t show any grey for the 9500 machine because it already has both grey and black cartridges and can reproduce 100’s of grey colours all day...
     
    martin0reg likes this.
  8. Jun 3, 2017
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,419
    Likes Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    373
    Location:
    USA
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP830, Pencil
    What is the substituted Cyan swath for - as a placeholder? I would rather see the Grey produced and compare it to the original and the others. :idunno
     
  9. Jun 4, 2017
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    10,775
    Likes Received:
    4,782
    Trophy Points:
    393
    Location:
    Wicklow Ireland
    Printer Model:
    Canon were, BUT 3D is better..
    OK @stratman I will zip back to 2011 in my DeLorean and run off a sample of grey for you.

    Grey 10 Colour chart.jpg
    Here is a selection from the sweet trolley to digest... Bon Appetit :D
     
  10. Jun 4, 2017
    stratman

    stratman Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,419
    Likes Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    373
    Location:
    USA
    Printer Model:
    Canon MP830, Pencil
    Looks good but you've brought me someone else's ramaki. I wanted lettuce wraps. :(

    Still, lovely greys effortlessly all day long.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
    The Hat likes this.

Share This Page