Where to buy bulk ink in the UK?

JoePineapples said:

Hobbicolor have a pigment black as do precisioncolors.

I do know that they ship to the UK I hope this helps

Joe

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One reason why Wilko and myself are looking for UK suppliers (and we have both imported from Hobbicolors in the past) is that you can only import small quantities without incurring penalty charges. The exact amount one can import into the UK or EU without additional charges is not very clear, but my belief is it is something like:

(Value of goods excludes postage charges) ...
1. If the value of the goods is over 18 (USD28), you pay VAT and a Post Office Handling Charge.
2. If the value of the goods is over 36 (USD56) and is non-commercial (a gift), you pay VAT, Customs Charge and Post Office Handling Charge.
3. If the value of the goods is over 120 (USD187) and is commercial, you pay VAT, Customs Charge and Post Office Handling Charge.

(with lots of exclusions, exemptions, and definitions of vattable goods and goods subject to import duty)

In practice, this does not appear to be strictly enforced and many packages (perhaps a majority?) get through the system without penalty. But it can be a nasty surprise if you get caught.

Ian

@websnail

My theory (with no evidence to back it up), is

1. The volume of bulk ink sold to CISS users is much greater than that sold to individual cartridge refillers (is this true?).
2. Therefore there is more turnover (and profit?) in selling to the CISS market.
3. Pigment inks could be trouble in a CISS system, being much more likely to clog the feed tubes than dye ink (is this true?).
4. If you don't sell pigment ink, your customers won't put pigment ink into dye carts by mistake - fewer customer complaints / returns / refunds.
5. If you sell CISS systems, you will get many customers returning to get their bulk ink from the same supplier (a semi-captive market).

So the end result is that the bulk ink suppliers only offer bulk dye ink, targeted at the CISS users.

Good theory?

Ian

Ah.. I remember this well .. old ripoff Britain Also it seems that they can't tell the difference between dollars and pounds and they charge pounds like dollars :-(

Joe

IanYY said:

@websnail

My theory (with no evidence to back it up), is

1. The volume of bulk ink sold to CISS users is much greater than that sold to individual cartridge refillers (is this true?).

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Like you I have no data to back it up... As this forum has more refillers than CISS users and refilling is generally more successful on Canons it's going to be skewed so it's hard to be sure.

2. Therefore there is more turnover (and profit?) in selling to the CISS market.

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Possibly... but they can all use the same ink so either market would seem prudent.

3. Pigment inks could be trouble in a CISS system, being much more likely to clog the feed tubes than dye ink (is this true?).

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Again, depends on your CIS design... Bottom feed CIS systems (ie: where the ink feeds into a tube connected to the bottom of the reservoir) are more prone to this sort of problem... Dip tube CIS kits (where the tube dips down into the ink) are less susceptible depending on the depth the tube dips into the ink. Case in point a D88 which has been fed with Epson compatible pigment ink (Image Specialists) for the last 2+ years with few if any problems... Occasional swilling of the ink to stir it up seems to be sufficient.

4. If you don't sell pigment ink, your customers won't put pigment ink into dye carts by mistake - fewer customer complaints / returns / refunds.

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Hmm... possibly but frankly good documentation and compatibility charts along with a basic FAQ on "Dyebase vs' Pigment - spot the difference" should help there. Customers do have to take responsibility for actually reading the information too... but I do understand your point

5. If you sell CISS systems, you will get many customers returning to get their bulk ink from the same supplier (a semi-captive market).

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Yep, that would figure as most folks go with what they know... until the colours come out wrong or it all goes pear shaped..

So the end result is that the bulk ink suppliers only offer bulk dye ink, targeted at the CISS users.

Good theory?

Ian

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You forgot that Dyebase is significantly cheaper to buy so the profit margins are better but yes in some senses you're not losing your mind with these ideas.

Ultimately one basic reason people go for CIS kits over refilling is the reduction in mess, hassle and simplicity... For Canon users the CIS route is often the exact opposite experience compared to say an Epson kit which is far simpler and more reliable.


At the end of the day though, a theory is only as good as reality and reality can be mighty weird at times

When I looked around I ended up using milken/precision colors. The shipping from canada was cheap enough to keep me under the 18 tax limit and still make it cost effective to order a small amount. I think I paid about 12 for four canon colours delivered with enough to refill 4 or 5 times which worked out fairly economical.

Bear in mind that all the EU has no import tax to the UK. I think pharmacist has posted the european distributor for image specialists before so you could probably buy in bulk from them if you really need loads of ink. Or people post german sites sometimes which will sell you inktec in bulk and kmp black which some people say nice things about. In the end I went with milken as I did not want to buy that much ink and could find less info about it. http://www.tintenalarm.de

It's worth noting that the 18 threshold is for goods only - not goods + post/carriage. My purchases of refills from Hobbicolors have always been under that limit.

pebe said:

It's worth noting that the 18 threshold is for goods only - not goods + post/carriage. My purchases of refills from Hobbicolors have always been under that limit.

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Ah, yes you are right. I get confused as once you go over 18 you get charged tax on the shipping as well. That and its often safer to include a bit of extra room as you never know for sure how the currency conversions will affect your total.

After reading this thread about VAT, I shudder at the thought that US politicians have considered a VAT.

I feel for you folks in Britain.

stratman said:

After reading this thread about VAT, I shudder at the thought that US politicians have considered a VAT.

I feel for you folks in Britain.

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Yeah.. it sucks to import into the UK .. I ordered a DVD player .. one of the first ones in the UK it was 300USD cost me 60 pounds in charges to get the damm thing

Now that I'm living in japan it's a lot better .. I ordered a UMPC from the UK .. didn't pay TAX and the charges for a 700UKP .. 4000yen about 20UKP !! .. the TAX if you bought it in the UK was 120+ UKP

The only dark spot is shoes for Japan... Japanese have small feet so I have to import my shoes I like rockport/clark shoes and it's 50pct duty on these


Joe

It's not just the UK that has problems though...

Epson pulled a fast one, over a year ago, where they got the Federal Trade Commission (think that's the name?) to put 100% import tax on all Epson 3rd party (compatible) consumables entering the USA.

By all accounts the only reason they got away with it is because there was no 3rd party consumables manufactured in the USA so imports were hurting American jobs or some such guff...

So, it's not all sweetness and light over there...