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What is the difference between a pigment CISS and a Dye CISS?

Discussion in 'InkJet Continuous Flow Systems' started by MKlaue, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. Jan 15, 2011
    MKlaue

    MKlaue Newbie to Printing

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    First let me say hello (my first post ) and ask for help on this, let me give you some background:

    I just bought a Epson workforce 30 and was planing on adding a CISS. The workforce 30 uses all pigment based inks as stated on its spec list and original carts. This is why i bought the printer.

    After searching for a while i found that most CISS out in the market carry black pigment and color dye inks. Even the ones that say are for the workforce 30.

    At this point i decided to purchase and empty CISS and buy pigment inks for it. What looked kind of slim I was almost giving upon on the idea and was planing on buying a full CISS and emptying the inks and refilling.

    But after further research i finally found a company selling and empty CISS for the workforce 30 but it says it is good for sublimation ink and pigment ink. They also sell the CISS for the same printer but with dye color inks.

    That is when the question came up, is their any difference between the two CISS?, I thought all CISS used same concept.

    Does this mean i can not buy a full dye CISS (for the workforce 30) from any other company a just purge the ink and refill with pigment inks?

    Thank in advance.

    MK
  2. Jan 15, 2011
    printfan1138

    printfan1138 On Vacation

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    I have a couple of Epson C88+ printers and they are supposed to be for pigmented inks but I set up one with a cis system and dye based inks and the other is using pigmented inks. The cis system itself is identical for both. The delivery system works for both, I don't know anything about sublimation inks but I doubt if the cis system itself is any different but perhaps some others in here can answer that question. My c88+ with the dye ink produces really beautiful full color prints but then so does the pigmented set up. Dye inks are cheaper but I've been told they don't last as long as pigment inks and are prone to fading. Having said that I have several dye prints that are several years old and I see no difference from the day they were printed. Also I have heard that the dye based inks will run if they get wet so some time back I took a print i didn't particularly like and put it under a faucet in the sink and ran water over it for 10 minutes. I saw absolutely no indication of ink running and I even took a paper towel and wiped it over the print and it didn't even smear, not even a little. So What can I say? Either some of the things I've read about dye based inks are incorrect or I stumbled on some super ink! I hope I've answered some of your questions.
  3. Jan 15, 2011
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Guru

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    Would you tell us please where do you get the ink (dye and pigment) and the ciss?
    And what about the color fidelity, no shift compared to OEM?
  4. Jan 15, 2011
    pharmacist

    pharmacist Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Well most photo quality papers will fix the dye on the fibers rendering them pretty waterproof, so it has nothing to do with the ink but the type of paper the ink is sprayed on. But on normal paper pigment ink will be waterproof and dye ink is easily washed off when put on under the tap.

    Martin0reg: is your problem solved with the leaking cartridges ? I am still using the TPI-paper and pretty nice results indeed, so I ordered some more of it yesterday from Conrad. I wish they have some larger sheets (A2), but A3+ is the limit they sell unfortunately.
  5. Jan 15, 2011
    martin0reg

    martin0reg Printer Guru

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    pharmacist: yes the TPI is good quality for the price, originally was recommended by lothman..

    .. I don't know what leaking you mean, my refillable epson carts are sometimes messy to fill but it is okay..

    But my main problem in the mment is bad ink flow in CANON refilled OEM (durchstich)
    Sometimes the purged and dried sponge doesn't absorb the ink fast and good,
    sometimes newer carts which are still wet from original ink are very difficult to pierce through, especially with blunt needles on the ink bottle, I have to poke first with a sharp needle. But thats another topic...
  6. Jan 15, 2011
    MKlaue

    MKlaue Newbie to Printing

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    printfan1138 thanks for your comment.

    But i really want to know if their is more of a difference before i purchase my CISS.
  7. Jan 16, 2011
    websnail

    websnail Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    The primary difference is more to do with the inks and what they are likely to do within a CIS reservoirs/cartridge, and not so much what they do on the paper.

    Key thing to remember is that pigment involves the pigment particles being suspended in solution whereas dyebase inks are completely dissolved dyes. The former are more prone to the pigment particles slowly settling out of the solution over very long periods of time. This takes place in both the reservoirs and the cartridges themselves so there are a few things you'll want to avoid in a CIS for a pigment system.

    1. Bottom feeding reservoirs... Unfortunately this is what you'll get in almost all of the commercial clone kits. The problem is that you get a higher concentrate of pigment at the bottom, it gets fed to the cartridges and promotes clogging.

    2. To a certain extend you want to try and avoid standard cartridges on the delivery end of the CIS as they will hold the ink and see some settling take place. Not as problematic but it pays to draw through a couple of cartridges full of ink every few months (dumping the ink you drew through back in the reservoirs) just to flush through and remove any concentrated backup.


    Resolving the reservoir side of things is best resolved by replacing them with the original dip-tube style of CIS reservoir (ie: a bottle with a tube dipping down into the ink to about 1cm from the bottom). This allows concentrated ink to fall below the point the printer draws ink in and reduces the concentration. It's also considerably easier to gently shake up single bottles of ink compared to a full single piece CIS that is pressure sensitive.

    Some of these points have been discussed before in other threads but hopefully that helps a bit more.
  8. Jan 17, 2011
    printfan1138

    printfan1138 On Vacation

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    Martin, to answer your question I buy everything from Ross Hardie at InkJetCarts.com. He has it all on his site and his inks are formulated for the printer. An example is my wife's Epson 1400 that uses Epson Claria ink. Ross's inks are formulated to come very close to the same characteristics and they change from printer to printer. But He explains all this and a lot more on his web site and has a wealth of video and printed tutorials. Also he makes himself available on e-mail and is very good about answering questions promptly so please go to his site and see for yourself! That is what I do and I always get answers to my questions. I believe he also gives advice on Profiling for printer/Monitor set up and the guy has over 30 years in the printing field! I hope this helps! Happy Printing!
  9. Jan 17, 2011
    ghwellsjr

    ghwellsjr Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Printfan, when I go to InkJetCarts.com, I get a message across the top of the page that that domain name is up for sale and that page and all the links appear to be some kind of search engine instead of a vendor's website. What's with that?
  10. Jan 17, 2011
    lolopr1

    lolopr1 Printer Guru

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    @ghwellsjr I dont think he is referring to that site...

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