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MIS ink/inksupply.com inks cross contaminating in hp c309 AIO.

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard HP InkJet Printers' started by nerdful1, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Jan 5, 2012
    nerdful1

    nerdful1 Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Hello,

    I have about exhausted all avenues of inkjet printer research and and have been reading this forum long before joining.

    I have a horrid HP C309a printer, and was about to toss it when I found the MIS /Inksupply.com products by chance.
    I had been reading stuff on the luminous landscape website and saw references to MIS inks, and their grey scale inks.
    I figured it was a reputable supplier.

    Finding what looked like the perfect solution to replace my HP564 cartridges and or a CIS for my model, I went and ordered a set of their refillable carts and ink.

    Things went well the first day, and was amazed to print a perfect photo after GIMPing some colors and levels, and shut down for the day.

    The next day colors looked bad, and on opening the unit, I found black ink had reverse filled the yellow cart, magenta looked like it was taking a tour, etc.

    I tried many fixes including letting each cart rest overnight, with exact same levels in each (in case a higher filled cart would siphon into another cart), and so on.

    I filed a ticket with MIS (now renamed inksupply.com) and they didnt get back to me until I left a message about wanting a refund.

    The customer support said to mail her some photos of the carts, which I did before the holidays.

    So far I have heard nothing, and was awaiting holiday delay or excuse.

    Black and mixed colors hang off the head, and I think they are backing up into the wrong channels.
    Has anyone had problems with their ink being too thin, or their cart sponges wrong, etc?

    My puke and wipe station is completely cleaned out, and I attached a colostomy hose and bottle to the pump outlet, and ink flows readily when cleaning heads. (HP must still believe in bleeding of patients to cure them).

    Learned a lot more about inkjet defective by design thanks to your forum, and hope to find a non-hp printer/ink system if this doesnt work out.
  2. Jan 5, 2012
    websnail

    websnail Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    The most likely explanation for your problem is that the black cartridge was not properly sealed after refilling or simply overfilled so that the ink was seep out of the cartridge, sit in the rest pad that protects the printhead and then get drawn into the yellow nozzles and cartridge.

    I would look hard at whether the fill plug was secured properly and at your refilling technique to ensure there's no hiccups there...

    To give a small tip, when you refill you should be able to remove any cover from the cartridge exit port and have the cartridge sat (as if installed in the printer) and not have anything drip out. If the cartridge is overfilled you may get a small amount of ink drippage but this should stabilise if the fill hole is sealed properly.

    If you get any unregulated ink loss and it doesn't stabilise then the fill hole is not resealed properly or there is a problem with the cartridge that is allowing air due to a leak.

    It's very unlikely to be the ink itself but one of the pointers above..

    Hope that helps.
  3. Jan 5, 2012
    nerdful1

    nerdful1 Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I am using the inksupply.com refillable cartriges.

    These have a silicone rubber plug over the "xl" area, which of course I replace before mounting.

    There is also a small vent hole to the atmosphere over the sponge in the HP printers. I see from posts in the Canon forums about air leaks, but this one is open to the atmosphere like some other sponge systems. I notice canon carts have some kind of air seal.

    Early in the game I let the carts rest for hours in the snap-on seals they come with to let the sponge absorb, and I got each tank about half full, where they stabilized after sitting.

    Any drips I waited to stop before attaching the storage seal and/or mounting to the head.

    I would also touch the sponge with a towel to see if it was good and wet, but not dripping.

    I now have a new head, and it does the same, so I don't believe it could be some kind of breach in the ink channels.
  4. Jan 5, 2012
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Guru

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    I think Websnail's diagnosis is right on the mark. The black cartridge is either overfilled or is not sealed (or leaking). The vent over the sponge is supposed to be open, although there should be just a small pinhole or capillary opening.

    I would suggest cleaning and refilling the contaminated cartridges and buy a new HP cartridge. That should fix it for you. You can empty those contaminated cartridges just by keeping a paper towel in contact with the exit port and letting it wick out until the color is right.
  5. Jan 9, 2012
    nerdful1

    nerdful1 Getting Fingers Dirty

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    I received a reply from mis inksupply, and he said it could be the seals on the head are bad.

    I have a new head and the carts squish down on them ok.

    I took out the seals and massaged them, and trhey are nice and supple.

    I have 5 ink carts half filled (according to tank side), resting for a few days, and ready to put them back in.

    I hate using all my ink for experimenting, but if I could lick this, I'll have a printer that I know made at least a couple really great photos.

    I also like its Linux support, (HPLIB) and I can install printer/scanner/fax on a Linux box in about a minute and a half.

    I would even order a CIS if I knew ity would work right.
  6. Jan 9, 2012
    mikling

    mikling Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    If aftermarket refillable cartridges for the 564 were used, then more than likely the seal ( top plate) of the cartridge body is leaking air in...not the plug seal. This is a common problem with these things . I had nothing but problems when I sold these a few years back. Today. I'd rather simply not sell these items. OEM cartridges or nothing. There is no substitute unless you're looking for punishment.

    In your situation, your best bet is to simply get some HP 564XLs and refill those.
  7. Jan 13, 2012
    nerdful1

    nerdful1 Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Really getting more undecided with pursuing this inkjet stuff.

    I was planning on getting a cis for this machine, especially when I had that one good day of printing great photos.

    The time spent researching its problems, built in or otherwise:
    I moved the coin cell battery holder to the outside of the PCB so I can disconnect it easily when in need or resetting. I added a colostomy bottle so as to avoid waste ink pad problems, and a thorough cleaning.
    A new head.

    I tried an xl photo black cart and had the same problem very early on, so I could try it again.

    I sounds as though the refillable 564 cartridges are junk from mis inksupply.com, so I should not trust their CIS?

    Does the CIS come with different seals to the head?

    And what I still don't understand is why everyone is saying the cartridge has an air leak when there is a through hole over the sponge chamber.

    How can these cartridges be defective? As I mentioned above, I understand the Canon carts have a sealed system with some spring loaded valve, but the HP system is open to atmosphere.

    The cart ink openings measure the same as oem, and the surface is smooth, and looks like it should seal easily to the print head rubber.

    I am also open to suggestions to get a printer recommended by this forum, used or otherwise.
    My needs:

    Some fun darkroom like photo experiences, I grew up with a chemical darkroom, and don't miss the days of expiring chemicals, Cibachrome drums, test prints, dust blah blah.

    Why does it have to be such a pain decades later to make home photos?

    Please recommend a decent model, hp, canon, epson, for a CIS, and occasional photo processing. An all-in-one would make a better wife appreciation factor.

    I also favor Linux friendly systems, but will deal with using a windows box if needed.

    Thanks for the replies.
  8. Jan 13, 2012
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Guru

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    The cartridge has two chambers. The sponge chamber MUST be open at the top, and the other chamber MUST be COMPLETELY sealed. I assume that you filled the cartridge by opening a plug at the top of the other chamber. This chamber and plug MUST be completely sealed, with no air leaks, or the cartridge will definitely leak. (There is a small opening between chambers, however, and that's all right.) As Mikling pointed out, the leak could be either at the plug or in the cartridge body itself.

    I have the same printer, and I am curious what changes you have made to the printer, though. You mentioned taking out the battery and changing the plumbing for the purge pump. I am very interested in what changes you made and what results you got.
  9. Jan 13, 2012
    nerdful1

    nerdful1 Getting Fingers Dirty

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    Hi,

    Thanks for the info, I'll double check the plug, maybe by looking for bubbles underwater? (not the hole side of course), They look fine under an eye loupe.

    I opened the printer by removing the torx screws as needed, also unplugging the scanner top and setting it aside.

    When re-assembling it, I left off some side screws usually obscured by the scanner, and now can take off either side without unplugging the scanner again.

    Don't turn it on with the scanner unplugged, the HP software would probably go nuts and who knows, shut down for good.
    Maybe some clever use of a power screwdriver bit could be used to sneak under the scanner lid.

    The coin cell, a 3020 type lithium cell is on the inside of the left PCB. You have to unscrew and disconnect things to get to it. (I'm into electronics industry, so am careful of ESD,etc).

    The cell is not soldered in, but the socket is, which I unsoldered and moved to the outside of the board.

    Maybe you don't need to go this far, and can reach the battery clip with a long shard of credit card? I'll look later. This way you could slide the card under the top clip of the socket to open to disconnect the battery.

    I can see tons of these being tossed when the battery goes (If they should last that long without being run over by a truck like on Youtube.)

    On the right side is the spew and puke station, and a lot of absorbent padding, VERY saturated with the minimal use this got until recently.

    I don't see any "wet sensor", so I bet it counts head cleanings or whatever until it "estimates" the pad is full and need to be "serviced".

    I hope pulling the battery resets that in the future if it happens. That would be so bad if it permanently disables itself with a full CIS attached.

    Originally I pulled out the front vertical pad and turned it around, but decided to attach a waste ink hose.

    Just by chance, I had some very rubbery green aquarium hose hanging around, very supple like surgical tubing, and it slid nicely over the sewer outlet hose of the printer.

    The outlet hose can be seen coming form the pump, and its opening sits under the front pad.

    There is a couple inches of slack if you carefully detach some of it from a clip. I put the other end into an empty rubbing alcohol bottle through a hole punched in the cap.

    It is amazing to see the flow of expensive ink during a head clean.

    On the good side, I don't seem to notice any flow other than the manual head cleaning, or it's initialization of a new head or ink install.

    I was pondering (if I am not going to return any new stuff back to vendor like the head) of trying some vacuum pump grease on the head seals.

    Anyway good luck....N1
  10. Jan 13, 2012
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Guru

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    Wow, this is great! What exactly does disconnecting the battery reset? Purge pad count? The cartridges (thereby making them all read full again?)? Page count? Everything? And this is the C309a, right?

    Do you have any pictures of this surgery? They would certainly be welcome on this forum.

    On the cartridge, I would guess the leak would be either the plug or the seam around the top, which doesn't look all that secure even in the OEM cartridges. However, it could even be internal. I suppose it's worth looking for bubbles, but a slow leak or an internal leak might not show anything unless you pressurize it. Maybe more trouble than it's worth.

    I would not suggest using grease anywhere. You could really gum up the head and burn the grunge inside. Besides, unless you can see an actual leak where ink is coming out, a leak where the cartridge connects to the head, could NOT cause the leak you are observing. If there were a leak there, it would introduce air into the system, quite the opposite of leaking ink.

    If it were mine, I would just get another HP XL cartridge, and that might solve your problem. But you can refill that and it should be good.

    To answer your question about the Canon cartridges, Canon has different types of cartridges, but many of them are almost identical to these. The sponge material and the vent system are different, but everything else is virtually identical. It's usually assumed that HP licenses Canon patents. There's a lot of info on the construction of these cartridges, and on refilling the Canon cartridges. There is less information that is specific to the HP564 cartridges. I hesitate to give you firm details because I don't have a totally satisfactory refill procedure yet myself. (I have had trouble with low ink flow, and diagnosis is a little slow in coming since I don't print a lot most of the time.)

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