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Freedom Refill Method for Canon BCI 3, 5, 6 & CLI 8 & PGI 5 and others

Discussion in 'Canon InkJet Printers' started by ghwellsjr, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. Feb 4, 2012
    jtoolman

    jtoolman Print Addict Platinum Printer Member

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  2. Mar 16, 2012
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Guru

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    I have to say I have given up on Freedom filling, except maybe for pigment black. It got better with practice, and I was optimistic about it, but in practice I found it rather difficult to carry out correctly. It's also slow and requires a lot of cleanup. It works very well for pigment black, but poorly for photo black and colors. It would be quite a bit better if I didn't have to return excess ink to InkTec tubes.

    Since it works well for some of you, I believe it must depend on the ink. I use InkTec for HP564, and IS for black.

    The main problem is that the cartridge blows bubbles and creates quite a durable foam, which should not be reinjected into the cartridge. (The design of the syringe or adapter has little to do with this. The cartridge makes most of the foam.) Unfortunately, it takes quite a long time for the bubbles to break, and meanwhile you are trying to hold the vacuum with the syringe. The last time I refilled, I found that I was removing ink instead of refilling.

    I managed to solve the foam problem by putting a large excess of ink in the syringe, but that has some disadvantages. In my case I have to return the excess ink to those stupid little InkTec tubes. That must be done very carefully, under pressure. The last time I did that I didn't realize how much ink I sucked out of the cartridge, and as a result I blew the end off my last tube of InkTec cyan. For those who told me so, you were right.

    I still like the idea of vacuum filling, and methods such as those described in this thread seem promising. I tried it because I thought it would prevent any possibility of air in the sponge, which may not be the problem I thought it was going to be. On the bright side, I managed to fill my cartridges VERY full, and they worked well without leaking, so I very likely did remove the air.
  3. Mar 26, 2012
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    An update on the Topcraft hot melt glue:

    The glue failed. My small adapter came apart, when I used it for flushing a BCI-6 cartridge. I've found another hot melt glue that seems stronger. The brand is "Toolex" and I bought it at a local discount supermarket. I cannot give more info about the new glue sticks, apart from the color is more yellowish, where the Topcraft are a white opaque appearance. Time will tell if the new glue is any better.
  4. Mar 26, 2012
    The Hat

    The Hat Printer VIP Platinum Printer Member

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    The glue I use is yellow in colour (code PHPZ 32 A1) as well and goes on at a very high temp.
    but I still wouldnt use it for making the refill adapters; try the Araldite for a much better join..
  5. Mar 26, 2012
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    I've done some googling for info about hot melt glues. I found there are high and low temperature versions of hot melt glues. I think the high temperature versions give a stronger bond, but the hobbyist versions of glue and glue guns seem to be the low temperature type. Normal glue stick diameters for hobbyist hot melt glue are 7 and 11 millimetres. Industrial/professional glue sticks are 12 mm or more.

    What brand is the code PHPZ 32 A1 glue and matching glue gun? The type number looks to me as if it could be Bosch?

    The good old Araldite standard is much stronger than the quick setting types of epoxy, I might give that a try.

    I admit your and other's scepticism about the Topcraft hot melt glue was justified.
  6. Dec 19, 2012
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Guru

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    I just figured out what the problem is. I can be so dense sometimes (slapping forehead).

    The HP564 CMY cartridges leak air at the top of the sponge chamber. At least mine do. They just won't hold a vacuum long enough to fill.

    It could be that the joint between the top and the sides is not sealed above the sponge chamber. Or it could be that the adhesive on the label has deteriorated.
  7. Dec 19, 2012
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    Hi ThrillaMozilla

    I recently salvaged a HP Photosmart using HP 364 XL CMY + pigment BK cartridges. These cartridges should be equivalent to the HP 564 XL used in the US except for different regional coding.

    After reading your post, I took a closer look at these cartridges, and the vent sealing tape doesn't stick very well to the cartridges.

    Here is a little series to show my idea to a solution:

    [​IMG]

    These cartridges were topfilled, they are sealed the same way as Canon cartridges with a plastic ball; but I think my "tape trick" could be used equally well with other refill methods.

    !. The magenta cartridge clearly shows the label does not stick well to the cartridge

    2. Cyan. After removing the label clean away adhesive remnants. I used a piece of kitchen paper moistened with xylene.

    3. Yellow. Cover the vent with tape, and refill. I used Alumin(i)um tape.

    4. Black. Cut away a bit of the tape to open the vent after refill, and check that the vent is not blocked by holding the cartridge over a sink and blow gently into the vent to check that a few drops of ink exits the outlet.

    In case of a leaking cartridge case, I think the cartridge should be discarded. That kind of fault could lead to a disastrous ink leak, but I think that the tape is the problem.

    I hope this helps. I wonder how many are still using the Freedom method refill? I have done some testing, but I prefer using transparent carts, so I can see what is going on inside the cartridge. Good luck with the repair, and please report your results. I am very curious about all refill methods.
  8. Dec 19, 2012
    ThrillaMozilla

    ThrillaMozilla Printer Guru

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    Thanks, Peter. I think that makes a lot of sense. I like the aluminum tape replacing the label.

    I can't see the problem, but ink does seem to attack the adhesive, and it wouldn't take much of a breach to spoil the vacuum.

    It will be a few days until I can investigate. For now I have to get some work done. I succeeded in refilling partly, so I have enough ink for now.

    I kept using the Freedom method until now because I am just curious and stubborn enough to want to know how these things work. Besides, it really does have some advantages if you have nerves of steel and your wife doesn't mind a little magenta on the kitchen wall. (Amazingly, it wipes off. :D )
  9. Dec 19, 2012
    PeterBJ

    PeterBJ Printer Master Platinum Printer Member

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    That's the spirit. Keep experimenting and you may one day come up with an improved refill method :D

    I am an experimenter too.
  10. Dec 22, 2012
    emilyhu

    emilyhu Newbie to Printing

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    The reason you want to reduce the volume is that it subtracts from the vacuum that gets applied to the cartridge.

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