CLI-8 Cartridges, How does the chip really monitor ink?

[ghwellsjr]

3. I don't understand how this works, but these chips can apparently have a single pin for both input and output.

The technology is called SPI, Serial Peripheral Interface, and comes in many forms, one of which has a bidirectional data line and a clock line. The devices can also be connected in parallel so that many peripherals can be connected with just those two wires plus power and ground. Basically it works by having all the devices in listen mode. The controller outputs a series of "1" bits (or "0" bits) followed by an address and a few more bits which tells one of the devices to listen for input data or respond with output data for a certain number of clock cycles.

 

[panos]

AN ORIGINAL QUESTION OF MINE HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED.

If I have refilled, and done the reset to "continue printing", and I let an ink tank go empty, does the printer stop me with an "empty" detected by the sensor that looks at the prism?

The printer does have the sensor setup and the cartridges do have the prism. That we know.

I've been asking this question since these cartridges went public and I've given up. I hope someone will finally post an answer. I feel however that the answer will be negative, the printer won't stop. My reasoning is based on Canon's marketing, they no longer mention anything about optical sensors in their new printer brochures. (They no longer mention the ThinkTank system)

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

The one sure way to find out is for someone to buy a printer and test it. Amazon lists the iP4200 for $129.99 (http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PIXMA-i...r_1/104-8610415-2339101?ie=UTF8&s=electronics). There may be less expensive printers that use the CLI-8 carts, and they would be a better choice.

For the $130 you get 4 new CLI carts, so the printer itself only costs about $75.
Install a set of refilled carts in the new printer, navigate the nag screens and let it print until it either tells you that it's empty or quits printing. If it prints until it quit printing, try another refilled set of carts to see if the head was burned out or if it can be cleaned and rejuvinated. It may be an expensive experiment, but it may also be the only way to get your answer.

If someone had a printer that was having problems or had already printed a lot of pages, the new printer could replace the old printer and the old printer could be used for the test, further reducing the net cost of the experiment.

 

[panos]

Grandad, one doesn't have to risk burning the printhead. Just insert a cartridge that has ink on the sponge area only then try to print an empty page from Word. If the printer refuses to do so, the optical sensors work.

I am considering a photo printer, but I'm not going to the new chipped Canon line. The reason is that any cartridge that is inserted on the printer requires a chip and purging the cartridge with your method could possibly destroy the chip. Instead I will think very seriously of getting an HP02-based photo printer with the CIS I mentioned at the appropriate category OR an Epson R800. Both on CIS of course, but the HP would be much more convenient and reliable (if the CIS works).

Sorry for being off-topic on this excellent thread...

 

[mikling]

The 800 is it for truly lasting images. None of the others really compare if color permanence is a consideration.

 

[canonfodder]

Well, Canon did do it. They turn off the optical 'empty' detector when you have refilled.

In short form, I tried this:

Empty the ink from the tank of a refilled Canon cartridge which had been reported as low, but which had never been reported as empty.

I try printing, and get warnings. Continue with printing request through second warning and on to third warning and finally print. I was printing a small 1" X 1" picture, mostly black, and I had emptied the Yellow cartridge. It printed.

I gave it two more printing tries, hoping the optical sensor would 'see' the empty tank, but it did not.

To make the experiment 'fun', I had to deal with the printer's thought that, just now the Magenta should be out of ink, and the 'reset' by 5 seconds on the amber blinking button was needed to get past that.

I recorded every single step of this experiment's progress, and will type it up for all to see.

I did not blow up the head. It still passes repeated nozzle tests and prints fine. But now, I am really canonfodder, just waiting for the match.

 

[websnail]

Thanks for doing that Canon Fodder I was seriously looking at one of the printers for which I've sold off the cartridges and CD trays and figured what the hell.. but given that I've been rather good at burning printheads this weekend I thought I might not want to chance it for fear that my current jinx might slew the results


But just to note I've come up with a reason why the printer doesn't stop.

Normal use (before accepting warranty release)
1. LED is active and will detect any low/empty levels in the cartridge
2. Chip is active and will "Count" the remaining nozzle fires once the prism and LED have indicated the spongeless area is empty.

Refilled or 3rd party "empty" usage (after acceptance of warranty release)
1. LED is no longer active except right at the beginning of the startup routine so the prism will not indicate ink level
2. Chip is not active and will not provide any kind of "count" on remaining nozzle shots.


So, in summary Canon have no reason to support 3rd party ink as it doesn't serve their purposes and additionally they can't accurately gauge just how long the ink is going to last in the sponge anyway so in a sense I don't blame them for turning off ink level detection. They COULD leave on the prism detection and just halt when that area went empty but based on experience if you have clogging in the sponge you run the risk of ink not reaching the head and blowing the printhead so again they cannot be sure that full ink tank means ink reaching printhead.

All in all, it's actually not as stupid as it sounds but I suspect that their rational is part "put people off" and part pragmatics and abdicating responsibility for things they cannot control the variables for.

Overall though the info generated has been very interesting and useful as hell so my thanks to everyone for risking life, limb and printer.

 

[Grandad35]

canonfodder,

Thanks for testing these tests. An additional interesting test (which I am NOT suggesting that you run, and which I'm not going to run - at least not on purpose) that has a chance of being destructive would be to print until the sponge actually empties and the color disappears, then sequentially print several 8x10s of standard photos to really overheat the empty set of nozzles. Then, put in a refilled cart, run a cleaning cycle and print the nozzle check. It is my guess that the print head will still work. The reason that I say this is that when I was running a different brand of bulk ink (in early 2005) I had several instances where the cart stopped feeding (probably a clogged filter) when it wasn't empty - once in the middle of a 20 page unattended print run. I printed at least 10 sheets in a row where the PM was missing, and did not burn out the printhead. It WAS more difficult than normal to get all of the nozzles unplugged, probably because the empty nozzles really baked on whatever was left in them. To get everything back to normal, I manually cleaned with rubbing alcohol followed by compressed air. Running the heads empty is not a good idea, but it is not necesssarily fatal.

 

[canonfodder]

Grandad,

To an owner who does not know all that the forum members know about cleaning a print head, running on empty and baking in the ink could seem, and be for them in fact, fatal.

 

[canonfodder]

Anyone,

Would it be worthwhile for me to type up the steps I went through while doing my trial of the optical empty detector? I saved screen shots of each level of warnings that the Canon software put up while doing my trial, and I could include those. I would assume that the warnings would be common to all the new chipped printers.