POTENTIAL PROBLEM: Carplan de-ionised water

CakeHole

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I thought it best to post a warning here about a brand of de-ionised water i have been using. Recently i have had issues with a rubber plunger on a syringe, see this thread...
http://www.printerknowledge.com/thr...ush-piece-handle-and-clip-silicon-seals.9100/
The rubber plunger on the syringe has became worn after only flusing a single set of carts.

After speaking with Martin from Octoinkjet he believes or rather has a suspicion it may be down to the type of water i have used, so here is an image of the stuff....
IMG_20140705_092408.jpg


It was purchased from a Halfords store here in the UK, i believed it would be fine, de-ionised and distilled water i thought were similar at least to a degree. The bottle even states below the image of the iron and car battery (you may not be able to make it out) "Prevents furring and scale formation". Which sounds ideal for flushing printer carts and/or heads. However if this stuff is what is responsible for damaging my syringe plunger its probably best you are all aware of it and avoid it just in case it is the cause.

Hopefully this information will save a syringe or two and possibly even a printer head that anyone was thinking of purging with this stuff. If it can damage a rubber plunger in a syringe its probably best not to get it anywhere near a print head.

Hope it helps people :)
 

The Hat

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I am no Chemist but I reckon you’re barking up the wrong tree here, and you’ve missed the cat..:(

Distilled and de-ionised water are perfectly good to use for all sorts of things including drinking, but to say that it caused damage to your syringes is hardy lightly, regardless of what source you may have gotten that information from. :eek:

I use plain old tap (Faucet) SOFT water to purge all my printing equipment and can safely say I’ve not had a single problem using it and funny enough I even drink the same stuff too, I also put it into the car radiator.:cool:

Whatever caused you syringes to malfunction, it certainly wasn’t Halfords bottle of de-ionised water that’s for sure, at the end of the day it’s just purified water so you may have to look somewhere else for the problem..:barnie
 

CakeHole

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I am no Chemist but I reckon you’re barking up the wrong tree here, and you’ve missed the cat..:(

Distilled and de-ionised water are perfectly good to use for all sorts of things including drinking, but to say that it caused damage to your syringes is hardy lightly, regardless of what source you may have gotten that information from. :eek:

I use plain old tap (Faucet) SOFT water to purge all my printing equipment and can safely say I’ve not had a single problem using it and funny enough I even drink the same stuff too, I also put it into the car radiator.:cool:

Whatever caused you syringes to malfunction, it certainly wasn’t Halfords bottle of de-ionised water that’s for sure, at the end of the day it’s just purified water so you may have to look somewhere else for the problem..:barnie

I am just passing along information. Martin only had a suspicion (nothing definite) it could be the water, maybe i should had made that clearer. I know apart from that water, any ink that came out of the carts into the syringe when flushing and the smear of washing up liquid i had to use around the plunger to get it to function halfway through flushing the set of carts nothing else has been in the syringe.

Also i am no expert either but i am not sure you should drink distilled or de-ionised water. If you can make it out on that bottle below the image of the Steam Iron and Car Battery and the ""Prevents furring and scale formation" statement it does then say in the very small print...
"Keep out of reach of children. If swallowed seek medical advice immediately and show this container or label. Use only as indicated. Do not consume" So erm even though it may be fine i would not chance drinking it.

Whether that is normal or not for de-ionised water i do not know. I imagine its there because technically de-ionised water can still have microorganisms and organic compounds in it according to the link Martin provided me... http://www.thechemicalblog.co.uk/demineralized-water-vs-distilled-water/ I suppose it is possible some of them in it have had an effect. I am no expert either so do not know.

Again I am no expert on this situation, i thought the water would be fine. Im a long time reader here so have read about using distilled water, and plenty of posts and videos on flushing. I believed this stuff was basically the same thing/very similiar or at the least safe enough to use to flush ink cartridges and not destroy a syringe. It may or it may not, the post i made just as a warning to others, its basically save for any old ink from flushing the carts and the smear of washing up liquid the only stuff which has been in the syringe. So its either the water a combination of the mentioned or the syringe just had something wrong with it to begin with.

Ill leave it to others to decide im just passing on my experiences.
 

PeterBJ

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I'm also using the 50 ml syringes from Octoinkjet UK. I have used the syringes with demineralized water and pharmacist's cleaning and conditioning fluids. These liquids have not caused the rubber part in the syringe to swell. But I think some hydrocarbon solvents could cause swelling of the rubber, so what has the syringe been used with?

I think it is very unlikely, but could the demineralized water from Halfords be contaminated? Demineralized or deionized water should have no odor and no taste. If it is contaminated with a solvent this should be obvious from the smell.
 
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CakeHole

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No idea if this will show up, ive replied to The HAt and it says "This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors." so dunno what is going on.

The water from what i can tell has no odour to it. The syringe has only been used with this water on used canon carts from octoink for flushing.

Nothing except for the above water and obviously small amounts of ink when flushing the carts has been in it. The only other thing is a smear and just a smear of washing up liquid around the rubber plunger see i could actually move the syringe to finish flushing one of the two sets of carts. That was added after the issue had already happened to allow me to use the stiff syringe to at least finish one set of carts. As for taste of the water i am not willing to find out due to a warning on the bottle which i have mentioned in reply to the hat but the message has yet to show up.

I do not know if it is the syringe at fault, the water, a combo of the water and used ink from the carts or what it is. Martin has tentatively and only tentatively suggested it may be the water. I am not expert enough to know if that is possible or not. I can only report experience ive had.
 

websnail

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... yes, just to stress this... Given the background it was a tentative suggestion rather than a full blown "There's the killer!! Arrest him officer!" ;)

It's a weird one as the syringes are sterile, sealed units of recent manufacture so pollution is unlikely and given that they're medical grade I'd certainly hope it wasn't something wrong that the manufacturers Quality Control missed.


So, the thread title as it stands is perhaps a teensy bit OTT and a title rethinking and reset of the discussion might be in order to figure out what might have caused problems...
 

stratman

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Plastic syringes are typically made for single use and then to be thrown away. It is not uncommon to have plunger failure as you described. Using de-ionized water was a good choice. I use distilled water and tap water.

What I do not understand is why your de-ionized water is so expensive!

EDIT:
FYI on syringe lubrication -- http://www.medical-syringe.com/medicalsyringe.htm
 
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websnail

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Plastic syringes are typically made for single use and then to be thrown away. It is not uncommon to have plunger failure as you described.
Agreed but then so are cartridges ;) The daft part is that for that sort of failure you usually expect a fair amount of time or considerable use to have been done.. Not within a few hours... Certainly not my experience of the product at all.

What I do not understand is why your de-ionized water is so expensive!
Soda/Fizzy drinks are cheaper than bottled water in this benighted country... Sense doesn't enter into the equation.. :idunno
 

stratman

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Agreed but then so are cartridges ;) The daft part is that for that sort of failure you usually expect a fair amount of time or considerable use to have been done.. Not within a few hours... Certainly not my experience of the product at all.
Who knows why the plunger failed so early. Age of syringe and environmental conditions it was stored in before use? Quality control? Manufacturing idiosyncrasies (eg cost containment on materials)? Other???

I edited my original post to include info on syringe lubrication. While silicone is water repellant, continued exposure to solvents and friction will remove the silicone eventually and the rubber plunger component may swell.

A glass syringe would prevent this occurrence. But then you would have other issues to potentially deal with, including the need for reapplication of a lubricant.
 

CakeHole

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Yes websnail/martin i thought i was clear in saying it was only "suspicion" and "tentative" from you that it may be the water. Perhaps i could had been clearer in some way with that. I am happy to believe anything is possible you and the guys here have probably been at this ink game longer than me.

I actually posted this more see others are aware of a potential problem. Perhaps i should had labelled the thread POTENTIAL PROBLEM rather than warning. I can see how that sounds more alarmist.

It is possible the water does have something else in it. I replied to The Hat in a post that has yet to show up as its awaitng moderation but it does state on the bottle in small print (not easy to see in the image, sorry i did my best) below the Steam Iron and Car Battery images...
"Keep out of reach of children If swallowed seek medical advice immediately and show this container or label. Use only as indicated. Do not consume"

Now whether that warning is there A) just because de-ionised water can technically contain microorganisms B) because the water has something else added to it or C) It could even be like so many other silly warnings in this country and be totally harmless but they are covering there self in case anyone claims to get ill/die drinking it. A bit like a bag of peanuts and the "this product may contain nuts" silly warnings we get nowadays. i do not know. I had not even notice the tiny small print until today.

I guess i could go all nerd and send the stuff off for some type of analysis though i suspect that would cost a small fortune. All i know is personally ill avoid it in future, better safe than sorry. It may or may not be harmless to people and syringes.

I have to say a thank you to Martin/Websnail regardless for his time in the matter, he has/is going above and beyond to help me. Customer service since contact with him has been second to none. Anyone new here like i was thinking of ordering from him should not hesitate.
 
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