Epson XP-600 and 800 series

[websnail]

Hi Doom2...

I think the trick maybe (if true) that you can only install one set of starter cartridges in a printer. After that any attempt to use other starter cartridges in a printer that has already had its set, results in the printer refusing to accept them.

It's only a theory but certainly with Canon printers, because you could sell the printhead, cartridge set and printer as separates and make more money than selling them as a standard bundle, people were taking the proverbial piddle with it. While there's no separate printhead in the Epsons that doesn't stop folk pulling a similar stunt with the cartridges so this may be an attempt to foil that effort.

In your case Doom2, because you've only ever installed the one set of starter cartridges you wouldn't have hit the error but if I ever get a new XP-700 I may well send you the starter carts, unused just to see if this is indeed a feature.

I think the XP-750 uses different carts/chips to the XP600/700/800 ???

Oh and yes the XP-750 and XP-850 (presumably the A3 - XP-950 too) all use the 6 colour cartridge set T24xx (for the UK and Europe) or T27xx (for North America).

 

[Lakewell]

Hello all. I've read this whole thread and am now happy to know that I chose a good printer. I have a few questions since I am new to refilling.

1. Where can I purchase ARC chips? I am in the U.S.

2. I know that Mikling has his own formula for ink, but since that is his, what would be a good ink to refill with?

3. Is it best to purchase an XL black cart or standard?

All of you seem very knowledgeable and thank you very much for posting your findings.

 

[doom2]

1. Where can I purchase ARC chips? I am in the U.S.

2. I know that Mikling has his own formula for ink, but since that is his, what would be a good ink to refill with?

I think mikling uses inks from. http://www.precisioncolors.com. I've been waiting for the XP600/700/800 to pop on there but as i'm in the UK shipping will be to costly i suspect for me.

3. Is it best to purchase an XL black cart or standard?

I am using the original "starter cart" from the printer box. They refill to the same Qty as the std/XL.

Regards
D2

 

[mikling]

I had some special formulations made up for me and that took some time as a custom order. I finally received them.
All items for this printer will be online very very soon now.

Now there is one issue with the starter kit and the Text Black cartridge, they do not refill to the XL because of its construction internally. This is one cartridge where the valve works against you and its design is clever. You can refill to around 1/2 of what the XL chip indicates. So that means that around halfway down the chip level, the cart will produce an out of ink warning when the optical sensor kicks in and stops printing. If you have the right chips that can can be used on carts, then it is OK, since it will reset when refilled and an extra closing of the cover might be required. Just follow the messages on the menu. If the chip you acquired does not reset, you likely got a chip meant for a CISS. Epson firmware had a death call on it..it's gone. Lockedup, cannot be reset etc.

Is there a workaround to the half full issue on the Text cartridge. Yes, there is. However, it requires dismantling of the cartridge on one side opposite from where the diaphragm is. Removal of the cover plate, drilling a hole for refill, Creating a larger hole concentric to the hole on the body to allow the plug to sit flush when installed and then refilling from there. With this process, you can regain the extra capacity. I doubt that many users will choose to do this because it requires dismantling of the cart to a degree.

If you do this, you refill the cart via the normal process of streaming on the pad. Then you turn the cartridge over and then begin the mod...with the pad covers on securely of course.

Pics, to follow. since the construction of the text cartridge is similar but not exactly so to the color ones.

 

[websnail]

Is there a workaround to the half full issue on the Text cartridge. Yes, there is. However, it requires dismantling of the cartridge on one side opposite from where the diaphragm is. Removal of the cover plate, drilling a hole for refill, Creating a larger hole concentric to the hole on the body to allow the plug to sit flush when installed and then refilling from there. With this process, you can regain the extra capacity. I doubt that many users will choose to do this because it requires dismantling of the cart to a degree.

Original suggestion: Just to suggest the other obvious workaround would be to buy (or source an empty) XL Black cart (large/text) then fit your ARC and refill that instead. This would solve the ARC issue (assuming you'd got chips that fitted Miklings scenario) and remove the grief of trying to modify a setup/starter cartridge.

Correction: Based on what Mikling discovered about the cartridge design (which I've since confirmed still applies to the 26XL BK cartridge) and XL BK cart would do nothing to help... The XL cart suffers from the exact same issue so either the ARC would need to be a true power off/on to reset type or you need to use the mod' suggested by Mikling below (although other solutions/approaches may develop over time)

 

[mikling]

Is there a workaround to the half full issue on the Text cartridge. Yes, there is. However, it requires dismantling of the cartridge on one side opposite from where the diaphragm is. Removal of the cover plate, drilling a hole for refill, Creating a larger hole concentric to the hole on the body to allow the plug to sit flush when installed and then refilling from there. With this process, you can regain the extra capacity. I doubt that many users will choose to do this because it requires dismantling of the cart to a degree.

Just to suggest the other obvious workaround would be to buy (or source an empty) XL Black cart (large/text) then fit your ARC and refill that instead. This would solve the ARC issue (assuming you'd got chips that fitted Miklings scenario) and remove the grief of trying to modify a setup/starter cartridge.

Compared to the Canon 550/551 scenario it's only one cartridge to worry about too, so cost wise, it's not nearly as expensive.

Look before you leap.....as they say.

 

[mikling]

The initial weight of the starters for the BK is arount 43-44 grams. When refilled they are around 34 give or take. There is a missing 8-10 grams due to an air pocket.
When empty they are 23-24 grams. So they routinely refill with about 8-10 grams of ink but the starter came with about 8 to 10 more.........The XL. Twice the amount is the reason.
I have not purchased an XL but it all caculates out if you do your homework.

Further dissection and understanding of how the cartridge is constructed will reveal how this is so and how Epson can make this happen. The more intriguing aspect is how do they fill it properly to the max volume in the first place. This where the function of the little passage next to the pad comes into play. Otherwise, what is that little hole for? Nobody has even been able thus far to possibly come close to explaining that little hole is all about.

 

[websnail]

Look before you leap.....as they say.

Indeed... One of the reasons I've sourced more than one type of ARC and have plenty of testing to do still.

However worth noting that if an XL were not to work with the ARCs it would equally apply to a modified cartridge so on that basis the problem would be the ARC.

Conclusion, the ARC function is going to be very important. Doubtless other users will report their experiences with other chipsets too so still plenty to find out.

 

[mikling]

It is impossible for the diaphragm to refill the extra rectangular chamber inside the cartridge. So this is the workaround otherwise, just let the optical sensor perform its duties and refill half the amount and refill a little more frequently.

Now if you print principally text, one of the other workforce units using the T127 Black cartridge is possibly the better printer for you. If you want good photos as well, then the Expression 600 and up is the better choice at this point.

So while I have commended this printer, it is within what context your needs are.


Once the larger cutout is made, the plug sits flush and does not protrude. and you can top off very conveniently. Remove the plug, fill, plug it back.

 

[websnail]

It is impossible for the diaphragm to refill the extra rectangular chamber inside the cartridge.

Took me a little while to figure out the rational behind this but I think I now understand...

First thing to note though is that I'm more than a little shocked by just how wasteful this design is and frankly how Epson are taking the absolute p*ss with this cartridge design. It's like having a wine bottle where the little bulge in the bottom extends about half of the way into the bottle and the bottle is made of opaque glass! I really hadn't done the maths properly in relation to the text black cartridge and fatally assumed (that word again!) that it was going to be, at worst, half a cartridge (like a bolt on of the thinner dye carts) for the setup/starter and standard carts and a true double capacity larger cart for the XL. Ha, flippin' ha to that then.

Luckily I do have a 26XL BK so to be sure, I released two of the spot melts holding the back in place to take a peek at the internals. I can confirm that there's absolutely no difference in the setup, standard and XL cartridge designs at all, so my earlier supposition was incorrect. It's a complete waste of time getting an XL as the same issue will strike it as with the others.



Now as to the void never being refilled I now see what you mean. The ink in the main part of the cartridge will reach a point where the the valve will regularly be activated, resulting in the void being filled with air until the prism triggers the empty status. We could probably figure out when the trigger might activate but frankly there would be little point as you'd still lose that extra capacity by having to stop early to refill. So, ultimately the valve trigger ensures that air fills the void, refilling via the outlet will only fill the remaining space in the bag part of the cartridge and because you can't draw the air out of the cartridge properly you'd still hit problems.

Thinking about it some more though I wonder if it would be possible to fill as much as possible, then draw off the air via the outlet using the equivalent of the PGI-9 flush clips? Obviously cartridge positioning would be critical to be able to pull the air out but I suspect it might cause problems by drawing air in to the spaces directly feeding the outlets which might result in ink starvation issues... Hmmm! Something to play with to see if a non invasive option exists, but all in all does seem your suggestion for getting the most out of these carts is indeed the best available. Not sure if the panel needs to be replaced but that's really a minor point.

So ARC's are indeed going to be taking a bit of a hammering with a specific issue in mind. True power cycle reset or forcing a mod'd cartridge approach. I guess drilling the cartridge doesn't look quite so daft as it did before eh?

Clever Epson indeed and frankly well done for Mikling for figuring it out.